My first takeaway from this is that Rahm - like most people - seems to have memory holed a lot of what happened during COVID.
Aside from the fact that apologizing about decisions never helps politically, the school closing issue was a lot more nuanced than "Dems kept schools closed too long." For instance, here in Minnesota, the issue was more the health of teachers than a desire to keep schools closed.
For instance, my son's school reopened twice and then was forced to go back to virtual classes because within a week there weren't enough healthy teachers to keep things running.
How quickly people have forgotten that health professionals were clueless in the beginning because there was zero information to work from other than they soon knew it was spread airborne like the flu and colds.
Also, unless you were a teacher or an adminstrator who lived it as it happens, chances are, you have no idea what it was really like. Rick's comment here is important bc there is a significant amount of nuance that gets lost w/reference to school closings/staffings/openings.
Rahm Emanuel doesn’t seem to understand epidemiology very well. Schools were closed not just because the virus was dangerous for kids (it was—over a thousand deaths from the virus and multiples of that number hospitalized), but because kids would be vectors for spreading disease to the more vulnerable population at large (to say nothing of the teachers that would be put at risk since they would have to expose themselves to teach the kids). It’s the same reason why the clowns behind the Great Barrington Declaration were wrong—you can’t just cordon off high-risk parts of the population with a sign that says “No COVID” and then let everyone else get (and transmit) the virus because they’re lower risk. Our society is way too interdependent for that to work.
Kids were COVID-19 superspreaders - as they are for every virus. The Democrats were worried about killing off teachers and those with whom teachers would come into contact. As a husband to a teacher - I know this all too well as I was one of the early victims of COVID.
The Democrats have a LOT to apologize for (namely, giving a qualified woman 3 months to win an election, identity politics, etc.), but trying to save people's lives isn't one of those things.
In hindsight, I don't think we appreciated the educational damage that would be done, but also don't think we ever envisioned the multiple waves of COVID and length of closures at the time. People did the absolute best they could with the information that was at hand. The quality of information by the way was absolutely blurred by the disinformation and conspiracy pot-stirring by the radical right.
All of that said, I find the timing of this interview and subsequent discussion a bit tone deaf. Our house is on fire and we are debating the nuances of a complicated matter that occurred five years ago. Today, April 3rd, we are facing an active national crisis. Our financial markets and economy are crashing. We have alienated much of the entire world, friend and foe alike. We are witnessing the purposeful and rapid dismantling of our core institutions. The basic rule of law is being ignored, and people are literally being swept from the street and disappearing.
It is my humble opinion that we would be best served by focusing on the crisis at hand. There is a time and place for lessons learned and assignment of blame for past crisis such as COVID era school closings. I suggest now is not that time. Nor do I think it is any longer a priority for the potential voters of the future. Unfortunately bigger problems have taken its place.
If you'll remember, Trump was president when Covid started and for almost a year afterwards. The schools were being very cautious since nobody knew how bad this would be. I'm in Texas, a very red state with a Republican governor, and schools stayed closed her for about as long as anyplace. The Republicans later revised history and acted like they were never for closing anything. No apology necessary.
Bullsh-t. Apologize for allowing idiotic Republicans for their immoral, racist and destruction of our democracy. Dems do dumb things but they’re not trying to ruin the world.
Over a million people died during Covid! Aren’t those big enough numbers for you? You’ve got to be kidding! Why not talk to folks who worked in hospitals and ask them if schools could have been opened sooner. Your premise is ridiculous in my humble opinion.
As a retired teacher, this infuriates me. As a mom of a middle school teacher it infuriates me even more. I’m sure you have both been inside of a school recently.
In February of 2020, schools in Ohio had more absences than usual. When the pandemic was “announced” and schools closed it was to help in preventing the spread of COVID. Districts created online learning. Teachers were required to be present with that model. However, some kids didn’t join in b/c there was no one making them…ie parents. Other kids signed in, but hid their face or muted the sound. Certainly there were kids/parents who took the online seriously and supplemented when they could. When schools resumed, teachers were required to take temperatures, wipe down desks etc, sit kids 6 feet apart and prepare work for the kids who didn’t show up. Teachers got sick. Kids got sick. Kids and teachers and administrators died. I could go on and on, but won’t.
Why were medical procedures delayed during COVID? Why were medical appointments canceled? Why did news programs rearrange how they delivered the news? Why was March Madness canceled? Why did stores close? Why did Ohio, like other states, feel the need to give daily Covid briefings? Why is it the Democrat’s/Biden’s fault? So many whys.
Also Trump lied about Covid. He knew it was air borne. He also knew he had Covid when he had that Rose Garden special and gave Covid to lots of people. A few days later he was on way to George Reed Hospital. Almost died. He was given the medicine twice that stopped Covid. I wonder if he knows that the 2 people who perfected that med was the 2 he fired Yesterday.. That is the past and we all have to move on. Hope another Virus does not hit this country or the world. WE have not got top scientists as before..
Yes, many of the things you point out were closed in March of 2020. But those things reopened in late 2020 and 2021. In 2021 we even had March Madness. But some schools, including some large, urban districts like Chicago did not return to in person learning until they were essentially forced to in the winter of 2022 after tons of negotiations and lawsuits. Those are two different points in times, with two different philosophies on Covid.
Much like Rick Ellis previously, the entire "Covid" and school closure thing is MUCH more nuanced than simply saying that "Dems kept schools closed too long". As an educator in a purple state, I can tell you that we were all scared... all watching and listening to our healthcare leaders... and the vast majority of us (whether democratic, republican, or independent), ALL came to basically the same conclusion during that time -- IF we can save even a few lives (whether that be students or older educators) it is worth closing schools. And even in doing so, we still lost students to Covid... and in our district, dozens of teachers, also. Can one only imagine what would have happened if we had stayed open and brought thousands of students together each day? And let's also remember that EVERY single healthcare expert in the country (it seemed) was in favor of doing this. THIS was their preferred response. Had we decided to do something different, our outcomes most certainly would look very different today. Talk about irresponsible.
Although I respect and love listening to Rahm, I disagree with this portion of his assessment. Monday morning quarterbacking is one thing -- forgetting reality and facts is quite another. We lived through this together... and we remember. The Dems don't need to apologize for trying to keep people safe. Perhaps they need to remind them. And while they're at it, point out the idiocy of Trump back then... and show the public the cliff that he's driving our nation off of currently.
Disappointed this didn't come up in the interview. Good luck running in 2028, Rahm!
Schools closed under the Trump administration.
As someone said below, let's say Democrats "apologized." Then:
Republicans: Here's how bad it was, the Democrats actually had to apologize for closing schools, folks, if they admitted they were wrong about this, what else are they wrong about? When it comes to putting parents and children first, we have nothing to apologize for.
The city he was mayor of hated him. Why should we take him seriously on anything or think he'd have a shot in a Democrat primary?
Health insurers are today's bankers from the 1930s. Bankers were the bad guys when the Great Depression hit. Health insurers are the bad guys now because healthcare costs are out of control.
I just do not understand how the rest of the Western world has addressed the health care issue and America stands alone. ACA totally messed up healthcare for the 80% that had it all for the 20% that only had a little or none at all. I had a great healthcare plan before ACA, but afterward it was crap. ACA needs to be fixed, but no one wants to go there and actually fix healthcare so that it works for people instead of the insurance carriers.
The COVID debacle happened because the Trump administration dismantled the group charged with monitoring for a pandemic. They pushed people out (sound familiar?) and redistributed the rest but no one was put in charge of monitoring for a pandemic-like event. When COVID got loose, everyone looked around at who should sound the alarm, but no one was tasked with it so it was left to run out of control.
Apologies? Yeah, there are a lot of things the Democrats need to apologize for. First and foremost, they need to apologize to slightly left, center, and moderates (you know, the people that make up 80% of your electorate) for abandoning them for the left most fringes. The less than 5% of the party does NOT get you even close to getting elected. Don't ignore them, but don't let the tip of the dog's tail wag the dog which is what has happened for the last 20 years.
The next thing you need to apologize for is selling the middle class out. You decided that college educated people were your new class but they only make up 35% of the population and not all of them are left leaning. So you keep talking to the middle class like it exists, but it does not and what is left has been pretty much MAGA-fied. Just like Unions are no longer a labor powerhouse. The bottom line is that your coalition partners have all been hollowed out because you didn't mind the store for them like you said you were. So they have left the party.
It is time for the Democratic party to prove to people that you care about the people that get you elected EQUALLY. The fringes need to be acknowledged, but they do NOT run the show.
Yeah Rahm Emanuel has zero credibility. He’s a SQID (Status Quo Institutionalist Democrat).
The Democrats SHOULD be apologizing for enabling SQIDs to become party leaders and securing the nomination for President.
The Democrats will return from the wilderness when they finally put the white gerontocracy out to pasture, and bring in a fresh cadre of leaders that aren’t afraid of upsetting the corporate donors in their efforts to help struggling Americans.
I’m not sure if Rahm should be THE messenger — but I think he nailed it on what went wrong and what should be said. The emotion and direction is definitely there.
Thanks for sharing this Chris. Emanuel is nothing if not thought provoking! I have not heard anyone else who has a grasp and understanding of the arc of politics across time (and ability to explain it), AND, then being able to translate that arc into what it means and how it influences politics today. Also, his points about language and message are bang on. Why the dems keep missing on language is baffling - its politics 101.
Democrats need to apologize for closing everything, including schools for far too long. They lost so many people when it was ok to protest in mass but everything else from playgrounds, to parks, beaches and outdoor church services was off limits and too dangerous.
In addition to school closures, they need to apologize for not promoting excellence in education. The whole “math is racist, smart kids can’t take accelerated classes because it’s unfair to others” line of thinking really got to parents and is still an issue.
American Dream ideology both built and destroyed America’s global dynasty. American Dream ideology must pivot as America’s global dynasty wanes. Liberals and conservatives alike are doubling down on an outdated American Dream. It is a disservice to the people of America not to update America’s brand.
My first takeaway from this is that Rahm - like most people - seems to have memory holed a lot of what happened during COVID.
Aside from the fact that apologizing about decisions never helps politically, the school closing issue was a lot more nuanced than "Dems kept schools closed too long." For instance, here in Minnesota, the issue was more the health of teachers than a desire to keep schools closed.
For instance, my son's school reopened twice and then was forced to go back to virtual classes because within a week there weren't enough healthy teachers to keep things running.
How quickly people have forgotten that health professionals were clueless in the beginning because there was zero information to work from other than they soon knew it was spread airborne like the flu and colds.
Your last part is important to remember.
Also, unless you were a teacher or an adminstrator who lived it as it happens, chances are, you have no idea what it was really like. Rick's comment here is important bc there is a significant amount of nuance that gets lost w/reference to school closings/staffings/openings.
100 per cent right.
But
Rahm Emanuel doesn’t seem to understand epidemiology very well. Schools were closed not just because the virus was dangerous for kids (it was—over a thousand deaths from the virus and multiples of that number hospitalized), but because kids would be vectors for spreading disease to the more vulnerable population at large (to say nothing of the teachers that would be put at risk since they would have to expose themselves to teach the kids). It’s the same reason why the clowns behind the Great Barrington Declaration were wrong—you can’t just cordon off high-risk parts of the population with a sign that says “No COVID” and then let everyone else get (and transmit) the virus because they’re lower risk. Our society is way too interdependent for that to work.
Kids were COVID-19 superspreaders - as they are for every virus. The Democrats were worried about killing off teachers and those with whom teachers would come into contact. As a husband to a teacher - I know this all too well as I was one of the early victims of COVID.
The Democrats have a LOT to apologize for (namely, giving a qualified woman 3 months to win an election, identity politics, etc.), but trying to save people's lives isn't one of those things.
Amen! Covid was a public health crisis. Memories are too short on this fact.
In hindsight, I don't think we appreciated the educational damage that would be done, but also don't think we ever envisioned the multiple waves of COVID and length of closures at the time. People did the absolute best they could with the information that was at hand. The quality of information by the way was absolutely blurred by the disinformation and conspiracy pot-stirring by the radical right.
All of that said, I find the timing of this interview and subsequent discussion a bit tone deaf. Our house is on fire and we are debating the nuances of a complicated matter that occurred five years ago. Today, April 3rd, we are facing an active national crisis. Our financial markets and economy are crashing. We have alienated much of the entire world, friend and foe alike. We are witnessing the purposeful and rapid dismantling of our core institutions. The basic rule of law is being ignored, and people are literally being swept from the street and disappearing.
It is my humble opinion that we would be best served by focusing on the crisis at hand. There is a time and place for lessons learned and assignment of blame for past crisis such as COVID era school closings. I suggest now is not that time. Nor do I think it is any longer a priority for the potential voters of the future. Unfortunately bigger problems have taken its place.
Yes!
If you'll remember, Trump was president when Covid started and for almost a year afterwards. The schools were being very cautious since nobody knew how bad this would be. I'm in Texas, a very red state with a Republican governor, and schools stayed closed her for about as long as anyplace. The Republicans later revised history and acted like they were never for closing anything. No apology necessary.
First. Your premise is faulty. Others below have adequately described why.
Second, what would be accomplished? Do you miraculously expect grace from Republicans? Are you kidding me? They’d use it as a cudgel.
Bullsh-t. Apologize for allowing idiotic Republicans for their immoral, racist and destruction of our democracy. Dems do dumb things but they’re not trying to ruin the world.
Over a million people died during Covid! Aren’t those big enough numbers for you? You’ve got to be kidding! Why not talk to folks who worked in hospitals and ask them if schools could have been opened sooner. Your premise is ridiculous in my humble opinion.
As a retired teacher, this infuriates me. As a mom of a middle school teacher it infuriates me even more. I’m sure you have both been inside of a school recently.
In February of 2020, schools in Ohio had more absences than usual. When the pandemic was “announced” and schools closed it was to help in preventing the spread of COVID. Districts created online learning. Teachers were required to be present with that model. However, some kids didn’t join in b/c there was no one making them…ie parents. Other kids signed in, but hid their face or muted the sound. Certainly there were kids/parents who took the online seriously and supplemented when they could. When schools resumed, teachers were required to take temperatures, wipe down desks etc, sit kids 6 feet apart and prepare work for the kids who didn’t show up. Teachers got sick. Kids got sick. Kids and teachers and administrators died. I could go on and on, but won’t.
Why were medical procedures delayed during COVID? Why were medical appointments canceled? Why did news programs rearrange how they delivered the news? Why was March Madness canceled? Why did stores close? Why did Ohio, like other states, feel the need to give daily Covid briefings? Why is it the Democrat’s/Biden’s fault? So many whys.
You are casting a wide reach on this.
Also Trump lied about Covid. He knew it was air borne. He also knew he had Covid when he had that Rose Garden special and gave Covid to lots of people. A few days later he was on way to George Reed Hospital. Almost died. He was given the medicine twice that stopped Covid. I wonder if he knows that the 2 people who perfected that med was the 2 he fired Yesterday.. That is the past and we all have to move on. Hope another Virus does not hit this country or the world. WE have not got top scientists as before..
Yes, many of the things you point out were closed in March of 2020. But those things reopened in late 2020 and 2021. In 2021 we even had March Madness. But some schools, including some large, urban districts like Chicago did not return to in person learning until they were essentially forced to in the winter of 2022 after tons of negotiations and lawsuits. Those are two different points in times, with two different philosophies on Covid.
I appreciate your viewpoint. I am tired of schools and teachers being the problem.
I have teachers in my family. It was very hard on them so I appreciate you and your daughter.
Much like Rick Ellis previously, the entire "Covid" and school closure thing is MUCH more nuanced than simply saying that "Dems kept schools closed too long". As an educator in a purple state, I can tell you that we were all scared... all watching and listening to our healthcare leaders... and the vast majority of us (whether democratic, republican, or independent), ALL came to basically the same conclusion during that time -- IF we can save even a few lives (whether that be students or older educators) it is worth closing schools. And even in doing so, we still lost students to Covid... and in our district, dozens of teachers, also. Can one only imagine what would have happened if we had stayed open and brought thousands of students together each day? And let's also remember that EVERY single healthcare expert in the country (it seemed) was in favor of doing this. THIS was their preferred response. Had we decided to do something different, our outcomes most certainly would look very different today. Talk about irresponsible.
Although I respect and love listening to Rahm, I disagree with this portion of his assessment. Monday morning quarterbacking is one thing -- forgetting reality and facts is quite another. We lived through this together... and we remember. The Dems don't need to apologize for trying to keep people safe. Perhaps they need to remind them. And while they're at it, point out the idiocy of Trump back then... and show the public the cliff that he's driving our nation off of currently.
Great stuff Chris! Keep at it!
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/rahm-emanuel-s-coverup-laquan-mcdonald-s-death-can-t-n1277538
Disappointed this didn't come up in the interview. Good luck running in 2028, Rahm!
Schools closed under the Trump administration.
As someone said below, let's say Democrats "apologized." Then:
Republicans: Here's how bad it was, the Democrats actually had to apologize for closing schools, folks, if they admitted they were wrong about this, what else are they wrong about? When it comes to putting parents and children first, we have nothing to apologize for.
The city he was mayor of hated him. Why should we take him seriously on anything or think he'd have a shot in a Democrat primary?
Health insurers are today's bankers from the 1930s. Bankers were the bad guys when the Great Depression hit. Health insurers are the bad guys now because healthcare costs are out of control.
I just do not understand how the rest of the Western world has addressed the health care issue and America stands alone. ACA totally messed up healthcare for the 80% that had it all for the 20% that only had a little or none at all. I had a great healthcare plan before ACA, but afterward it was crap. ACA needs to be fixed, but no one wants to go there and actually fix healthcare so that it works for people instead of the insurance carriers.
The COVID debacle happened because the Trump administration dismantled the group charged with monitoring for a pandemic. They pushed people out (sound familiar?) and redistributed the rest but no one was put in charge of monitoring for a pandemic-like event. When COVID got loose, everyone looked around at who should sound the alarm, but no one was tasked with it so it was left to run out of control.
Apologies? Yeah, there are a lot of things the Democrats need to apologize for. First and foremost, they need to apologize to slightly left, center, and moderates (you know, the people that make up 80% of your electorate) for abandoning them for the left most fringes. The less than 5% of the party does NOT get you even close to getting elected. Don't ignore them, but don't let the tip of the dog's tail wag the dog which is what has happened for the last 20 years.
The next thing you need to apologize for is selling the middle class out. You decided that college educated people were your new class but they only make up 35% of the population and not all of them are left leaning. So you keep talking to the middle class like it exists, but it does not and what is left has been pretty much MAGA-fied. Just like Unions are no longer a labor powerhouse. The bottom line is that your coalition partners have all been hollowed out because you didn't mind the store for them like you said you were. So they have left the party.
It is time for the Democratic party to prove to people that you care about the people that get you elected EQUALLY. The fringes need to be acknowledged, but they do NOT run the show.
Yeah Rahm Emanuel has zero credibility. He’s a SQID (Status Quo Institutionalist Democrat).
The Democrats SHOULD be apologizing for enabling SQIDs to become party leaders and securing the nomination for President.
The Democrats will return from the wilderness when they finally put the white gerontocracy out to pasture, and bring in a fresh cadre of leaders that aren’t afraid of upsetting the corporate donors in their efforts to help struggling Americans.
Wrong!
I’m not sure if Rahm should be THE messenger — but I think he nailed it on what went wrong and what should be said. The emotion and direction is definitely there.
Thanks for sharing this Chris. Emanuel is nothing if not thought provoking! I have not heard anyone else who has a grasp and understanding of the arc of politics across time (and ability to explain it), AND, then being able to translate that arc into what it means and how it influences politics today. Also, his points about language and message are bang on. Why the dems keep missing on language is baffling - its politics 101.
Democrats need to apologize for closing everything, including schools for far too long. They lost so many people when it was ok to protest in mass but everything else from playgrounds, to parks, beaches and outdoor church services was off limits and too dangerous.
In addition to school closures, they need to apologize for not promoting excellence in education. The whole “math is racist, smart kids can’t take accelerated classes because it’s unfair to others” line of thinking really got to parents and is still an issue.
American Dream ideology both built and destroyed America’s global dynasty. American Dream ideology must pivot as America’s global dynasty wanes. Liberals and conservatives alike are doubling down on an outdated American Dream. It is a disservice to the people of America not to update America’s brand.