The problem the democrats have is that they keep looking at this through the democratic lens and not how people outside the party see it. They might end up convincing themselves that Biden is their guy and they’ll vote for him because they’re democrats but the problem is that they’re abandoning all of the Never Trump Republicans and all of the moderate conservatives that would vote for a better democratic candidate. As you’ve pointed out many times, Donald Trump is a terribly weak Republican Candidate. Literally almost anyone, probably including George Clooney, would beat Trump in a General Election. But those voters I mentioned are quickly distancing themselves from Biden. They won’t vote for Trump but they won’t vote for Biden either. Just an incredible amount of hubris and arrogance from the Democrats. Anyone without blinders on can see this one coming.
They have no choice. They chose to vest full power in Biden, knowing full well that he was addled enough to decline the Super Bowl interview in February, a powderpuff gig with a huge audience. That should have been the start of the dump-Biden movement. It wasn't, and so we're gong to get Trump 2.0.
"They won’t vote for Trump but they won’t vote for Biden either". That's the crux of the Democrats problem. It's similar to the situation we had in 2016 (I'm a Democrat and make no secret of it) when Jim Comey essentially shot Hillary's campaign in the head. Only this time Joe is shooting the Democratic ticket in the head.
Not exactly- especially after Trumps 2025 proposal (which he supposedly knows nothing about)co- written by Navarro, Miller and other top Trumpettes. Funny how this two party system which George Washington warned us about is biting us in the ass. Most are coming to the conclusion that for the good of this country Biden must step aside.
The real problem here isn't hubris nor arrogance- it's Trump!
I think people are being a bit too harsh on the Dems and press who failed to call out Biden’s condition earlier. I agree some criticism is warranted. But few felt competent to reach a conclusion based on limited encounters/evidence. Moreover, if we’re honest, we are always reluctant to conclude someone we like and respect isn’t up to the job. Most of us are grateful to Joe for his service . Many - clouded by loyalty- remain in denial to this day. And I doubt that any episode prior to the debate was as clear cut.
"few felt competent to reach a conclusion based on limited encounters/evidence"
The press is not supposed to reach conclusions, the press is supposed to report what they see and hear, especially when they are on-the-scene witnesses. The reports coming out now are that MANY in the press saw a brain-dead Biden up close, and then did not report it.
Some smart comments, Chris. I can hardly believe people are still trying the “just a bad night” approach. No one in control of his/her faculties can have a night that bad. And as I’ve said before, people were worried about Joe’s fitness before the debate. Consequently, his horrible showing cemented those concerns. The other significance of Clooney/Reiner speaking up is that it’s a signal big donors are not going to step up for what seems a futile effort. I don’t suggest this factor is dispositive, but it is another weight on the scale suggesting Biden needs to stand down.
Thanks for the great synopsis Chris!! Holy !@#$ on the George Clooney piece. I, too, love and respect Joe Biden but I've had my reservations he was up to the job even before the disastrous debate. God I just pray he hurries up and does the right thing. This is getting ridiculous.
Also, very nteresting info into Maga world. We are in deep trouble. Lord help us. 🙏🏻🇺🇸
When George Clooney, a fervent Biden supporter, goes public with this kind of statement, it is serious. And when Donald J Trump’s campaign is running like a well-oiled machine, it is frightening. We need a candidate to bring it to Trump. If that candidate is Joe Biden, then he needs to step it up. And if we are going to have another candidate at the top of the ticket, then we need to get behind that person. The Democratic leadership does us a disservice with their hand-wringing and off the record comments. They need to get it together, now.
If enough voters with concerns contact their elected officials, Democratic leadership could go as a group to Biden, armed with the recording of the debate and subsequent appearances if need be, and tell him that they won’t support his bid, and offer him a chance to step aside with grace and dignity, to be a revered elder statesman, and above all else to help beat Donald J Trump in 2024. I will vote for a straight Democratic ticket in November, my guess is that many voters, dismayed by their choices, will simply stay home. Trump has a small but boisterous and enthusiastic base, if there is apathy on the other side ,he will win. I don’t know how old you are, Mark, but if you are 40+, as yourself how 22-year-old you would feel about this election.
WHY are Democratic officials (house, Sen, Gov, ex-presidents hint hint, others) having such a hard time unifying around a universal "Biden, please get out voluntarily and we'll honor your legacy" message? Trump I understand can intimidate his party because he has a large loyal base perfectly prepared to destroy any perceived anti-Trump Republican (most of the time). But Biden? He has barely any love...only strategic tolerance and acceptance (how cold that is!), like my votes for him in 2 primaries based purely on "he can beat Trump".
They're having a hard time because they know Biden can tell them to f**k off, and very likely will. And then what do they do?
Biden believes his legacy is dead the moment he quits, and so he's not quitting.
And absolutely no one can make him quit. Only a revolt by 50% or more of his pledged delegates can do that, but they are all the most loyal of Biden loyalists. So it an't gonna happen.
Good answer, but UGGGHHH! I wish the message could be "get out with honor, endorse Kamala, serve your term out, and we'll elevate your legacy. Fight us and everyone/everything is destroyed, especially your legacy"
I’m not sure he’s motivated by a sheer craving for power, I believe wholeheartedly he thinks he can win and that he’s best positioned to do so. Both candidates have served one term as President, and Biden’s has been very successful on many fronts. Trump’s was a disaster. When the voters that will decide the election start paying attention and get serious about which candidate they prefer a few months from now, the poll numbers could change dramatically. No other available democratic candidate can say that they have served a term as President and it went pretty well. Some say he is the most accomplished President since WWII, and the contrast with Trump is pretty stark. So it I think it is not only possible but likely he believes he serves the country by staying in. Of course he could lose. But if you really think Kamala is a slam dunk for uncommitted midwestern voters, you might have case of greener grass syndrome. I read a poll today purporting to show that the smart play would be Clinton/Harris. If that’s the kind of thing y’all believe, I’m not sure that a rational conversation will do any good. That’s why we do primaries.
Kamala doesn’t solve the problem. She’s almost as problematic to non-democrat voters as Biden is. Again, none of this is new or un-known. Is it fair? Of course not, but it is what it is.
What a roller coaster ride this week has been. I am back to feeling its quite likely Biden drops out. The question is how soon. I really loved both Clooney's essay and Nancy calling for Biden to make a decision.
I'm slightly confused if you are serious, given the link. But I will say on this and other sites disagreement about the best path forward has been quite civil. Everyone is quite united in the need to defeat Trump.
I think Biden is not going to drop out, period, no matter what.
And, even though I have been a registered Democrat for 50 years (and still am), I am also NOT united in the need to defeat Trump. In fact I want Trump to win, and as many Democrats as possible to lose. If you want to know why: https://marksmusings.substack.com/notes
I clicked your link but it was not easy to quickly decipher your views. I guess your very mad at dems for some reason. I have been a bit mad at them myself this week.
I am VERY mad at them for (1) enabling and supporting the ongoing crime against humanity of mutilating and sterilizing children (primarily gay) based on pure medical quackery, and (2) enabling and supporting the destruction of women's and girls' rights to single-sex spaces, places, events, competitions, etc, especially egregious is the Geneva-convention-violating policy of placing men in women's prisons.
SO MAD that I will not vote for any of them ever again, unless and until they change and publicly acknowledge the immense harm that they did.
For more on the women's rights issue, see the two books by radical feminist Democrat lawyer Kara Dansky:
So LATimes reporter Elex Michaelson is NOW saying "I covered Clooney's fundraiser for Biden. Almost every single Democrat (off camera) I talked with leaving that fundraiser expressed serious concerns about Biden's age walking out of it."
Why the F**K didn't he report that at the time?
Chris: is this not malpractice on the part of the press?
Nuzzi reported the same in her NYMag piece: reporters personally observing a brain-dead Biden, but writing NOTHING about it.
If Biden's failings were widely known in the upper echelon of the Democratic Party 6 months ago, yet the leadership did nothing, why should the Democrats be elected no matter who the candidate is?
Talk about the kettle calling the pot black if the Dem leadership hid this by either silently acquiescing or actively promoting a false narrative about Biden's fitness, all the while railing about Trump's lying.
I agree but even for people that don’t (like the recent Bulwark piece), certainly the campaign, the White House, and candidate all knew. (OK, I’m not 💯on that last one.)
I honestly don’t see how Biden can run on calling Trump a liar after trying to pull off a massive deception on the American people. It’s just not on.
I am reminded of Bill Clinton's remark that Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love. Apparently, Democrats fall out of love as well. No matter what transpires in the next week and who is the head of the ticket, the most disquieting comment in Alberta's Atlantic article came from David Axelrod,
"... Considering the unthinkable latitude the Supreme Court has just given Trump, we could end up with a situation where he has dominant majorities in Congress and, really, unfettered control of the country. That’s not far-fetched.” No matter who leads the ticket, i hope all Democratic campaigns around the country focus on that!
There should be no shame in getting old. It is not a bad or shameful thing that Joe Biden is older than he was in 2020 and is facing some ability declines which go with his age.
The naturalness and lack of shame attached to his decline does not make denial of said decline OK for a candidate for president. The American people need a capable president. It is that simple for the Democrats. Pick another person.
Biden’s candidacy is over. It’s just a matter of whether or not he realizes it. Either he drops out, or his campaign goes on and is a death march to November, where he loses badly despite being up against a convicted felon.
If Kamala ends up the nominee I think we should force George Clooney to be her VP candidate and she should immediately announce he is going to be the new immigration czar and the administration’s point man on Gaza and Lebanon. See how his poll numbers fare. I’m really worn out. Stupid debate.
Biden may indeed have to leave the race. All the indicators you mentioned are compelling.
But as you noted some of us might not care what Clooney says. Count me among those. I am very tired of actors and other entertainers (unless they are running for office) chiming in on issues, testifying in Congress, giving endorsements, and otherwise using fame and money to try to influence politics . People need to stop conflating fame with expertise. Why people care what they say is just more evidence how reticent folks are about thinking for themselves.
It isn’t expertise that George Clooney has, or what makes anything that he says important…it is money, and friends with money. Lots of it. It is what powers the campaigns on both sides.
so were they denied access or did they hide it? how about everyone already knew he was pretty doddering in 2020 and the "decline" is fairly irrelevant? just being able to call him a liar fits the narrative better
The problem the democrats have is that they keep looking at this through the democratic lens and not how people outside the party see it. They might end up convincing themselves that Biden is their guy and they’ll vote for him because they’re democrats but the problem is that they’re abandoning all of the Never Trump Republicans and all of the moderate conservatives that would vote for a better democratic candidate. As you’ve pointed out many times, Donald Trump is a terribly weak Republican Candidate. Literally almost anyone, probably including George Clooney, would beat Trump in a General Election. But those voters I mentioned are quickly distancing themselves from Biden. They won’t vote for Trump but they won’t vote for Biden either. Just an incredible amount of hubris and arrogance from the Democrats. Anyone without blinders on can see this one coming.
Totally agree. As I said a few days ago: If Democrats keep Biden and lose, they'll deserve it.
They have no choice. They chose to vest full power in Biden, knowing full well that he was addled enough to decline the Super Bowl interview in February, a powderpuff gig with a huge audience. That should have been the start of the dump-Biden movement. It wasn't, and so we're gong to get Trump 2.0.
"They won’t vote for Trump but they won’t vote for Biden either". That's the crux of the Democrats problem. It's similar to the situation we had in 2016 (I'm a Democrat and make no secret of it) when Jim Comey essentially shot Hillary's campaign in the head. Only this time Joe is shooting the Democratic ticket in the head.
Not exactly- especially after Trumps 2025 proposal (which he supposedly knows nothing about)co- written by Navarro, Miller and other top Trumpettes. Funny how this two party system which George Washington warned us about is biting us in the ass. Most are coming to the conclusion that for the good of this country Biden must step aside.
The real problem here isn't hubris nor arrogance- it's Trump!
^^^^This, 💯.
the number of people online suggesting that they will hold their nose and vote for ANYTHING that isn't trump is growing.
This is getting really uncomfortable
I think people are being a bit too harsh on the Dems and press who failed to call out Biden’s condition earlier. I agree some criticism is warranted. But few felt competent to reach a conclusion based on limited encounters/evidence. Moreover, if we’re honest, we are always reluctant to conclude someone we like and respect isn’t up to the job. Most of us are grateful to Joe for his service . Many - clouded by loyalty- remain in denial to this day. And I doubt that any episode prior to the debate was as clear cut.
"few felt competent to reach a conclusion based on limited encounters/evidence"
The press is not supposed to reach conclusions, the press is supposed to report what they see and hear, especially when they are on-the-scene witnesses. The reports coming out now are that MANY in the press saw a brain-dead Biden up close, and then did not report it.
Some smart comments, Chris. I can hardly believe people are still trying the “just a bad night” approach. No one in control of his/her faculties can have a night that bad. And as I’ve said before, people were worried about Joe’s fitness before the debate. Consequently, his horrible showing cemented those concerns. The other significance of Clooney/Reiner speaking up is that it’s a signal big donors are not going to step up for what seems a futile effort. I don’t suggest this factor is dispositive, but it is another weight on the scale suggesting Biden needs to stand down.
Thanks for the great synopsis Chris!! Holy !@#$ on the George Clooney piece. I, too, love and respect Joe Biden but I've had my reservations he was up to the job even before the disastrous debate. God I just pray he hurries up and does the right thing. This is getting ridiculous.
Also, very nteresting info into Maga world. We are in deep trouble. Lord help us. 🙏🏻🇺🇸
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
When George Clooney, a fervent Biden supporter, goes public with this kind of statement, it is serious. And when Donald J Trump’s campaign is running like a well-oiled machine, it is frightening. We need a candidate to bring it to Trump. If that candidate is Joe Biden, then he needs to step it up. And if we are going to have another candidate at the top of the ticket, then we need to get behind that person. The Democratic leadership does us a disservice with their hand-wringing and off the record comments. They need to get it together, now.
There is absolutely nothing they can do. All power has been vested in Biden.
If enough voters with concerns contact their elected officials, Democratic leadership could go as a group to Biden, armed with the recording of the debate and subsequent appearances if need be, and tell him that they won’t support his bid, and offer him a chance to step aside with grace and dignity, to be a revered elder statesman, and above all else to help beat Donald J Trump in 2024. I will vote for a straight Democratic ticket in November, my guess is that many voters, dismayed by their choices, will simply stay home. Trump has a small but boisterous and enthusiastic base, if there is apathy on the other side ,he will win. I don’t know how old you are, Mark, but if you are 40+, as yourself how 22-year-old you would feel about this election.
WHY are Democratic officials (house, Sen, Gov, ex-presidents hint hint, others) having such a hard time unifying around a universal "Biden, please get out voluntarily and we'll honor your legacy" message? Trump I understand can intimidate his party because he has a large loyal base perfectly prepared to destroy any perceived anti-Trump Republican (most of the time). But Biden? He has barely any love...only strategic tolerance and acceptance (how cold that is!), like my votes for him in 2 primaries based purely on "he can beat Trump".
They're having a hard time because they know Biden can tell them to f**k off, and very likely will. And then what do they do?
Biden believes his legacy is dead the moment he quits, and so he's not quitting.
And absolutely no one can make him quit. Only a revolt by 50% or more of his pledged delegates can do that, but they are all the most loyal of Biden loyalists. So it an't gonna happen.
Good answer, but UGGGHHH! I wish the message could be "get out with honor, endorse Kamala, serve your term out, and we'll elevate your legacy. Fight us and everyone/everything is destroyed, especially your legacy"
I’m not sure he’s motivated by a sheer craving for power, I believe wholeheartedly he thinks he can win and that he’s best positioned to do so. Both candidates have served one term as President, and Biden’s has been very successful on many fronts. Trump’s was a disaster. When the voters that will decide the election start paying attention and get serious about which candidate they prefer a few months from now, the poll numbers could change dramatically. No other available democratic candidate can say that they have served a term as President and it went pretty well. Some say he is the most accomplished President since WWII, and the contrast with Trump is pretty stark. So it I think it is not only possible but likely he believes he serves the country by staying in. Of course he could lose. But if you really think Kamala is a slam dunk for uncommitted midwestern voters, you might have case of greener grass syndrome. I read a poll today purporting to show that the smart play would be Clinton/Harris. If that’s the kind of thing y’all believe, I’m not sure that a rational conversation will do any good. That’s why we do primaries.
^^^^nice
"I believe wholeheartedly he thinks he can win and that he’s best positioned to do so."
Yep, that's it exactly.
"That’s why we do primaries."
Yes, and no one with serious credentials would take on Biden, in sharp contrast to the Republicans.
So here we are.
Kamala doesn’t solve the problem. She’s almost as problematic to non-democrat voters as Biden is. Again, none of this is new or un-known. Is it fair? Of course not, but it is what it is.
BUT...I think Kamala will look different (vs her historical positioning) to uncommitted voters in this new context of "Biden Debate fiasco"
how?
What a roller coaster ride this week has been. I am back to feeling its quite likely Biden drops out. The question is how soon. I really loved both Clooney's essay and Nancy calling for Biden to make a decision.
I'm still ridin' with Biden, all the way down!
To paraphrase Stalin, how many pledged delegates does Clooney have?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6WD7B_I_9c
I'm slightly confused if you are serious, given the link. But I will say on this and other sites disagreement about the best path forward has been quite civil. Everyone is quite united in the need to defeat Trump.
I think Biden is not going to drop out, period, no matter what.
And, even though I have been a registered Democrat for 50 years (and still am), I am also NOT united in the need to defeat Trump. In fact I want Trump to win, and as many Democrats as possible to lose. If you want to know why: https://marksmusings.substack.com/notes
I clicked your link but it was not easy to quickly decipher your views. I guess your very mad at dems for some reason. I have been a bit mad at them myself this week.
OK, here we go!
I am VERY mad at them for (1) enabling and supporting the ongoing crime against humanity of mutilating and sterilizing children (primarily gay) based on pure medical quackery, and (2) enabling and supporting the destruction of women's and girls' rights to single-sex spaces, places, events, competitions, etc, especially egregious is the Geneva-convention-violating policy of placing men in women's prisons.
SO MAD that I will not vote for any of them ever again, unless and until they change and publicly acknowledge the immense harm that they did.
For more on the women's rights issue, see the two books by radical feminist Democrat lawyer Kara Dansky:
https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/21990140.Kara_Dansky
and the blog of the Women's Liberation Front:
https://womensliberationfront.org/news
For more on the crime against humanity of medically "transing" kids, see
https://www.realityslaststand.com
thanks for sharing your views. I am going to stay focused on how Dems can win elections and not go down that rabbit hole.
So LATimes reporter Elex Michaelson is NOW saying "I covered Clooney's fundraiser for Biden. Almost every single Democrat (off camera) I talked with leaving that fundraiser expressed serious concerns about Biden's age walking out of it."
Why the F**K didn't he report that at the time?
Chris: is this not malpractice on the part of the press?
Nuzzi reported the same in her NYMag piece: reporters personally observing a brain-dead Biden, but writing NOTHING about it.
How DARE they lie to us like that???
If Biden's failings were widely known in the upper echelon of the Democratic Party 6 months ago, yet the leadership did nothing, why should the Democrats be elected no matter who the candidate is?
Talk about the kettle calling the pot black if the Dem leadership hid this by either silently acquiescing or actively promoting a false narrative about Biden's fitness, all the while railing about Trump's lying.
Dem leadership AND the press, many of whom knew but did not report it.
I agree but even for people that don’t (like the recent Bulwark piece), certainly the campaign, the White House, and candidate all knew. (OK, I’m not 💯on that last one.)
I honestly don’t see how Biden can run on calling Trump a liar after trying to pull off a massive deception on the American people. It’s just not on.
I am reminded of Bill Clinton's remark that Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love. Apparently, Democrats fall out of love as well. No matter what transpires in the next week and who is the head of the ticket, the most disquieting comment in Alberta's Atlantic article came from David Axelrod,
"... Considering the unthinkable latitude the Supreme Court has just given Trump, we could end up with a situation where he has dominant majorities in Congress and, really, unfettered control of the country. That’s not far-fetched.” No matter who leads the ticket, i hope all Democratic campaigns around the country focus on that!
There should be no shame in getting old. It is not a bad or shameful thing that Joe Biden is older than he was in 2020 and is facing some ability declines which go with his age.
The naturalness and lack of shame attached to his decline does not make denial of said decline OK for a candidate for president. The American people need a capable president. It is that simple for the Democrats. Pick another person.
Too late. Biden is in full control. The time to act for the Democrats has long passed, they have given full power to the Autarch, long may he reign.
Versus your choice who will actively prosecute biden and his family out of spite... wonder why he is clinging?
Right, just like he actively prosecuted Hillary Clinton the last time he was POTUS.
Biden’s candidacy is over. It’s just a matter of whether or not he realizes it. Either he drops out, or his campaign goes on and is a death march to November, where he loses badly despite being up against a convicted felon.
But he will have done his best, and that's all that matters to him.
And takes the House and Senate down with him 🤦♀️
If Kamala ends up the nominee I think we should force George Clooney to be her VP candidate and she should immediately announce he is going to be the new immigration czar and the administration’s point man on Gaza and Lebanon. See how his poll numbers fare. I’m really worn out. Stupid debate.
😂
Biden may indeed have to leave the race. All the indicators you mentioned are compelling.
But as you noted some of us might not care what Clooney says. Count me among those. I am very tired of actors and other entertainers (unless they are running for office) chiming in on issues, testifying in Congress, giving endorsements, and otherwise using fame and money to try to influence politics . People need to stop conflating fame with expertise. Why people care what they say is just more evidence how reticent folks are about thinking for themselves.
It isn’t expertise that George Clooney has, or what makes anything that he says important…it is money, and friends with money. Lots of it. It is what powers the campaigns on both sides.
not only that, but he held his tongue for a LONG time too based on the "decline" perspective...
Lots of these folks are now jumping on the bandwagon. If Biden turns it around, they will jump off
Was the oh dear oh dear disaster meme really necessary?
I think so. It’s a terrible mess. 😭😭
That's independent and objective journalism for you.....
It actually is, it's much better than the sycophantic press that conspired to hide Biden's dead brain from us.
so were they denied access or did they hide it? how about everyone already knew he was pretty doddering in 2020 and the "decline" is fairly irrelevant? just being able to call him a liar fits the narrative better
They hid it, Olivia Nuzzi's piece in NY Mag makes that clear.
Too jokey for such serious times.
No not more upset, of course not. It just seemed too jokey for the moment. Sorry I didn't make that clear.