How I learned to love talking to people

On evolution.

I have never been a great talker.

I know that sounds weird because, well, I once made my living talking. But, I don’t really mind talking on TV (or on my YouTube channel!). It’s the face-to-face — or even phone-to-phone interaction — I have ALWAYS dreaded.

I am the person who texts you from across the room rather than talk to you. Who, when the phone rings, looks at it with horror. Who actively avoids, well, human interaction, that was not mitigated by my phone.

And for a long time, that worked for me! I had a stable job. (I thought!) I was busy with work and kids sports and the like. I had a few male friends — no one particularly close — but I made due. I would text people from time to time — usually with some funny meme I had seen online or with some riff about the demise of Georgetown’s basketball program.

Then, a year or so ago, my life changed. I was out of work. And one of the things I realized is that I had really let my relationships slip — with everyone from my wife to my male friends (such as they were) to people who had once been sources of mine on both the Democratic and Republican side.

Which was, well, humbling. Realizing that you have been neglectful of your most important personal and professional relationships hits like a ton of bricks.

I was thinking of that moment when I came across a piece this morning from one of my favorite authors: Derek Thompson of The Atlantic.

The story is headlined “Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out” and I think is a really important read. Here’s just a bit of the top of the piece:

From 2003 to 2022, American men reduced their average hours of face-to-face socializing by about 30 percent. For unmarried Americans, the decline was even bigger—more than 35 percent. For teenagers, it was more than 45 percent. Boys and girls ages 15 to 19 reduced their weekly social hangouts by more than three hours a week. In short, there is no statistical record of any other period in U.S. history when people have spent more time on their own.

And so what? one might reasonably ask. Aloneness is not loneliness. Not only that, one might point out, the texture of aloneness has changed. Solitude is less solitary than ever. With all the calling, texting, emailing, work chatting, DMing, and posting, we are producing unprecedented terabytes of interpersonal communication. If Americans were happy—about themselves, about their friends, about their country—then whining about parties of one would feel silly.

But for Americans in the 2020s, solitude, anxiety, and dissatisfaction seem to be rising in lockstep. Surveys show that Americans, and especially young Americans, have never been more anxious about their own lives or more depressed about the future of the country. Teenage depression and hopelessness are setting new annual records every year. The share of young people who say they have a close friend has plummeted. Americans have been so depressed about the state of the nation for so many consecutive years that by 2023, NBC pollsters said, “We have never before seen this level of sustained pessimism in the 30-year-plus history of the poll.”

Those stats echo my own lived experience in a MAJOR way. (I wrote about my struggles to make and keep male friends here.)

As does Thompson’s seemingly simple solution: Just socialize more. Hang out. In person. As he writes:

I don’t think hanging out more will solve every problem. But I do think every social crisis in the U.S. could be helped somewhat if people spent a little more time with other people and a little less time gazing into digital content that’s designed to make us anxious and despondent about the world. This young century, Americans have collectively submitted to a national experiment to deprive ourselves of camaraderie in the world of flesh and steel, choosing instead to grow (and grow and grow) the time we spend by ourselves, gazing into screens, wherein actors and influencers often engage in the very acts of physical proximity that we deny ourselves. It’s been a weird experiment. And the results haven’t been pretty.

This is 1000% right. And I have the data points to prove it.

About a year ago, I embarked on a quest to talk to anyone and everyone I knew — ideally in person or, if that wasn’t possible, on Zoom.

I had a lot of time on my hands. I was lost. I needed human connections. I needed to feel like I wasn’t alone. I needed something my old life wasn’t giving me.

And so, between then and now, I have probably had 200 in-person conversations — over coffee, lunch or drinks — with some combination of people I had lost touch with and people I had never met before.

At the start of that journey, I was nervous. I hadn’t done this sort of thing in a really long time! I didn’t want people to feel like I was BEGGING them for a job or a piece of worldly wisdom that would uplift me. I felt weird about asking people who I hadn’t talked to in years to coffee. Like, it would be an imposition for them. Or they would have forgotten about me. Or they would just be bored or uninterested.

There were definitely days in the beginning where I would have to FORCE myself to get up, get in the car and go to the coffee shop. But, every time, without fail (and I am dead serious here), I would feel WAY better (about myself and the world) after these meetings.

Why?

Because, I realized, human interaction and connection — greeting someone, seeing how they carry themselves, their body language, the words they choose, how often they speak and how often they listen — is FUNDAMENTAL to who we are and how we derive meaning.

Consider this:

a) You text someone you haven’t seen in a while — a friend — and ask them how they are doing. They respond “good.” You send a smiley face emoji back and think to yourself “Good that they’re doing so well!”

b) You meet this same person for coffee. You ask them how they are doing. They respond “good” but you can tell from their body language or the tone in their voice or whatever that it’s a guarded “good.” You probe a bit — and find out that, a month ago, they lost their dad and it’s hit them really hard. You spend the next hour talking about grieving — your own experience of loss, how you grappled with it and how there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Which of those two interactions is more meaningful? Which is likely to make you feel more connected? Which is the more real?

(Side note: Those scenarios — both of them — are ones I have experienced myself in the last year. And I can tell you which mattered more to me — and the other person.)

What I did I learn in my year of coffee conversations? Well:

1. We ALL struggle far more than social media or texts or other forms of electronic (or phone-centric) conversations let on.

2. Our struggles have a sameness to them. EVERYONE is wondering if they are in the right job, if what they are doing matters, if they are raising their kids the right way, how to best care for an aging relative etc.

3. Simply sharing those worries and wonders — in a face-to-face way — has a curative effect. It makes us feel (and be) less alone.

4. I was better — more myself, more energetic, more passionate — in person than I ever was via text or email. And that had a carry-over effect too; if I had a good meeting with someone early in the day, I would feel better throughout the rest of my day.

Look. I get that not everyone can take a year in which they only (or mostly) JUST write and meet with 200 people in person. That was a unique luxury for me.

But, I don’t think you have to do hundreds of coffees to learn the lesson I did. I think you can set the goal of meeting — outside of a work environment — with a friend, colleague, mentor or new acquaintance just once a week. Or even once every other week.

My guess is that many of you will say something like “I’d love to but I am just SO busy. I can’t fit it into my schedule.”

To which I say: Bullshit.

Here’s why: I GUARANTEE you that you spend at least an hour of your waking day scrolling Twitter or Instagram or Etsy or Ebay or Amazon or whatever. My guess is — if you’re like me — you spend multiple hours doing that.

I am not saying quit all of that cold turkey. I like social media! I enjoy my time on it! But, I also think ALL of us can find a way to carve out 30 minutes or an hour over the course of a week to just sit across from someone and ask “How are you doing?” And then just listen. And empathize. And share from your own experiences.

I am here to tell you it is the most self-affirming thing you will do every week. You WILL feel better. Because you will learn (or be reminded) that people are mostly good. That you are not alone in the world. That other people can guide you. Teach you. Sustain you.

We have the answer to our loneliness epidemic right in front of us. It’s other people. We just have to reach out. I guarantee you people will be glad you did.