Awesome post and thank you for your transparency! I understand your reaction to the hand waving, but may I suggest a thought experiment? Have you ever considered comparing your reaction to people showing emotion at church to your reaction to people showing emotion at a sports event? If God is real, and if the people at church believe that God is responsible for their life, their blessings, their hope……why wouldn’t they show that appreciation, in whatever way is authentic for them, at least as much as someone celebrating a touchdown? And if they chose to show it expressively, why wonder about its authenticity any more than the person spilling beer on you going crazy at the Nats game?
You're not wrong, but in my experience different people have different ways of connecting, so you have to find what works for you and not be weird with people who do it differently. I don't condemn hand-wavers, but I'm a pretty intellectual guy who connects that way, and I've been in congregational situations where I get told I'm too intellectual/liturgical and need to be more emotive. At the end of the day, we just all process it differently.
Adam, I couldn’t agree with you more. Let’s do both. Let those who want to wave their hands, wave them, recognizing that it actually might make sense to do so if you are having an experience with the creator of the universe. AND…..let those who are more reflective or intellectual sit still, slip away and have their own experience without judgement.
I’m actually in the latter camp, but I’ve always found the condescension towards the former interesting in a society that is so fanatical when it comes to entertainment, fame and sports. That inconsistency has always been striking to me.
You are quite optimistic with your posts. Not only do you try to figure out politics in today’s crazy times, but you’re going to help figure out religion and our attraction (or not) to organized worship. Very ambitious indeed!!
I’m not being sarcastic, but I look forward to future posts on this subject.
As a fellow nonbeliever, I wonder what it is that makes you “very much” want to believe? I’m really curious. Is it a desire to return to your Catholic upbringing?
This is a great question and I hope Chris will make a column of it. I am a former Baptist who has become a non-believer. I struggle with this more than I would like to admit and would appreciate someone else’s perspective on this.
Every once in awhile I attend a church. Any church for reasons I am not completely aware of.
One of my favorite novels -- forget about the movie except for George Burns -- is Avery Corman's "Oh God." The protagonist is a journalist (not a supermarket manager) who is invited to interview God. One of the questions he asks is which of the world's religions is closest to the truth. And God answers, "I should get into preferences? I think they're all cute."
Like you, I was raised a Catholic. Like you I attended Georgetown, where I lost my faith. I tried several times over the years to find my faith again but couldn't. I eventually found a home at a Unitarian Universalist church that celebrates the community's shared spiritual values, which may or may not include a belief in God. I later found a home within myself and no longer feel the need to attend any religious service. I feel very comfortable in my non-belief.
Yes… we born & raised Catholics have a lot to overcome. Good for you trying another church out! Actually God/Jesus isn’t in a building- it’s nice to go & be surrounded by faithful people- but I’ve always believed He wants us out there being “Him” in this world. Share your love, know He loves you & do your best to represent. That’s all he asks.
I don't know how the universe - with all its beauty and horror - came to exist. And I don't think that anyone else knows either. If you can't find God in your backyard, I don't think that you'll find Him in a church either.
Great post. As a formerly practicing cradle Catholic I’d like to share a few observations.
There are at least as many ways to believe in God and live into that faith as there are churches. Some are not meant for you. I never (I’m 71) got anything from the kind of service you describe but I found silent retreats to be life-saving.
Church is not God. A wise monk once told me that church people and clergy would ask you to do things and make it sound like God was making the request. Your job is to decide if this is true for you.
I have discovered that I have more of a church problem than a God problem. Religion and faith practice should never, in my view, been turned into a profession where the credentialed (clergy) guide and assess the amateurs (laity). It causes ordinary folk to off load their spiritual work onto hired clergy. My pastor says … is no substitute for I’ve studied and prayed about it and now think …
Just my more than two cents, subject to change as the journey continues.
Well stated. I'm also a cradle Catholic that hasn't been to mass since our parish priest told us that anyone who voted for an abortion supporter was going to hell. I've often thought that it's the people that ruin organized religions.
I can either write a novel in the comments section or keep it short. I will keep it short: how to authentically address the apparent disconnect between being politically engaged and slipping into a sinking spiraling vortex of toxic judgment, moralizing and virtue-signaling is one of the greatest questions of our time ... at least for me.
Some of those extroverted praising and hand waving members of the church are also on a similar faith journey, beset with doubts, concerns, and perhaps confusion. People’s faith journeys ebb and flow and it sounds like you are flowing. I commend to you the National Catholic Reporter’s Michael Sean Winters, who writes on faith and politics. God bless.
Ok...well, you seemed like you judged Biden fairly harshly this morning, didn't you? I can't speak to any of your feelings about religion as it is personal...for me, I think religion is the "root of all evil" 100%. However, I do periodically take my kids to church because I agree with you that occasionally carving out an hour to be reflective is a good thing. I feel you are wrong about Joe Biden...I'm over the moon happy that he pardoned Hunter...who, arguably is troubled, but didn't deserve most of the insane scrutiny he received. And if you are going to talk about people pardoning people ... the pot is really calling the kettle here coming from the GOP.
1. Ponder this: you can’t judge and experience at the same time.
2. I think you have more figured out than you may think!
Having a pull towards wanting something fulfilled is pretty much acknowledging it, yes?
There’s faith in God (whatever/however that may be) and then there’s its cultural expression. Many people believe that if the expression of someone’s faith doesn’t match their own, then that person doesn’t have faith in God. This belief/behavior often becomes visible in the political discourse surrounding faith. It’s hard to step outside the behaviors that were instilled as normative when you were a child. I’m an Episcopalian from birth, from a pretty high-church environment. To this day my mom will sit as far away from others and make up reasons to step away to avoid shaking hands or otherwise engaging with others during the “passing of the peace” because it is “too folksy” and makes her feel uncomfortable. The fact that some people actually hug at this time is still astonishing to her. It’s been decades since this became the norm!
My point is, it seems perfectly normal and expected to me that someone raised Catholic would have some level of reaction to a more, shall we say, independent expression during a service!
And I love love love what the guy said to you after the service… what a gift! 💝
‘Good for you and your family, Chris. The church (the body of Christ and its members) needs more people like you! You can help them as much as they can help you. Faith in the Lord is just that - faith! If it’s all a big myth - and who can say - it’s a better and more satisfying way of life. Theology is a fascinating study! Thanks for sharing your journey with all of us!
Chris--This is a great time of year to explore your questions. You might want to crack the book that recounts the life the Palistianian rabbi that the Christian faith is about. Church is really for those of us who doubt, fall short, and are afraid and seek comfort--in other words, a place for humman beings. First century Palestine has much in common with the world we live in. Jewish leaders were looking for a political or military leader. Instead, they got someone who did remarkable things but left them frustrated. The Christian faith is truly a life journey.
Thanks for the honesty here, Chris. Fellow journo here (actually, recently retired as a TV news anchor), so naturally skeptical...but not cynical (I hope). I came to the Christian faith in college. You mention lack of "proof" -- but I am satisfied that Christianity is historically rooted and can withstand a strong inspection intellectually. No "proof" like a math proof or philosophical syllogism, but a strong accumulation of evidences from history and philosophy. You might try "The Reason for God" by the late NYC pastor Tim Keller, or his "Making Sense of God." Or the books of former Chicago Tribune reporter (now popular Christian author) Lee Strobel. Or check out the writings of Joe Carter (who has a journ background) at The Gospel Coalition website. Above all, keep seeking! Read widely -- including the Bible, starting with the Gospel of John -- and I think McLean Bible is a good place to go and pose questions to the pastors or elders. Best regards, Rob Vaughn, Quakertown, PA.
Awesome post and thank you for your transparency! I understand your reaction to the hand waving, but may I suggest a thought experiment? Have you ever considered comparing your reaction to people showing emotion at church to your reaction to people showing emotion at a sports event? If God is real, and if the people at church believe that God is responsible for their life, their blessings, their hope……why wouldn’t they show that appreciation, in whatever way is authentic for them, at least as much as someone celebrating a touchdown? And if they chose to show it expressively, why wonder about its authenticity any more than the person spilling beer on you going crazy at the Nats game?
You're not wrong, but in my experience different people have different ways of connecting, so you have to find what works for you and not be weird with people who do it differently. I don't condemn hand-wavers, but I'm a pretty intellectual guy who connects that way, and I've been in congregational situations where I get told I'm too intellectual/liturgical and need to be more emotive. At the end of the day, we just all process it differently.
Adam, I couldn’t agree with you more. Let’s do both. Let those who want to wave their hands, wave them, recognizing that it actually might make sense to do so if you are having an experience with the creator of the universe. AND…..let those who are more reflective or intellectual sit still, slip away and have their own experience without judgement.
I’m actually in the latter camp, but I’ve always found the condescension towards the former interesting in a society that is so fanatical when it comes to entertainment, fame and sports. That inconsistency has always been striking to me.
Love your comment!
Thank you Barbara!
You’re welcome, Jay!
You are quite optimistic with your posts. Not only do you try to figure out politics in today’s crazy times, but you’re going to help figure out religion and our attraction (or not) to organized worship. Very ambitious indeed!!
I’m not being sarcastic, but I look forward to future posts on this subject.
Happy Holidays to you and your family.
As a fellow nonbeliever, I wonder what it is that makes you “very much” want to believe? I’m really curious. Is it a desire to return to your Catholic upbringing?
This is a great question and I hope Chris will make a column of it. I am a former Baptist who has become a non-believer. I struggle with this more than I would like to admit and would appreciate someone else’s perspective on this.
Every once in awhile I attend a church. Any church for reasons I am not completely aware of.
If you don't believe, why do you struggle? I've always wondered that.
Same! On all points!
One of my favorite novels -- forget about the movie except for George Burns -- is Avery Corman's "Oh God." The protagonist is a journalist (not a supermarket manager) who is invited to interview God. One of the questions he asks is which of the world's religions is closest to the truth. And God answers, "I should get into preferences? I think they're all cute."
There are many paths. You're finding yours.
Like you, I was raised a Catholic. Like you I attended Georgetown, where I lost my faith. I tried several times over the years to find my faith again but couldn't. I eventually found a home at a Unitarian Universalist church that celebrates the community's shared spiritual values, which may or may not include a belief in God. I later found a home within myself and no longer feel the need to attend any religious service. I feel very comfortable in my non-belief.
Yes… we born & raised Catholics have a lot to overcome. Good for you trying another church out! Actually God/Jesus isn’t in a building- it’s nice to go & be surrounded by faithful people- but I’ve always believed He wants us out there being “Him” in this world. Share your love, know He loves you & do your best to represent. That’s all he asks.
Lovely comment, Ronda!
Can you clarify your thoughts on judgment and the comments on your Biden post this morning? Best of luck on your spiritual journey.
People are VERY quick to condemn when you write or say something that doesn't align with exactly what they think. This is bad. Period.
well, actually you were pretty quick to condemn yourself. yes? You seem a little testy about the comments.
Dunking on a man’s spiritual journey because he has a take on politics you disagree with is a whole new level of vitriol. May God bless you, Ms. West.
I don't know how the universe - with all its beauty and horror - came to exist. And I don't think that anyone else knows either. If you can't find God in your backyard, I don't think that you'll find Him in a church either.
Great post. As a formerly practicing cradle Catholic I’d like to share a few observations.
There are at least as many ways to believe in God and live into that faith as there are churches. Some are not meant for you. I never (I’m 71) got anything from the kind of service you describe but I found silent retreats to be life-saving.
Church is not God. A wise monk once told me that church people and clergy would ask you to do things and make it sound like God was making the request. Your job is to decide if this is true for you.
I have discovered that I have more of a church problem than a God problem. Religion and faith practice should never, in my view, been turned into a profession where the credentialed (clergy) guide and assess the amateurs (laity). It causes ordinary folk to off load their spiritual work onto hired clergy. My pastor says … is no substitute for I’ve studied and prayed about it and now think …
Just my more than two cents, subject to change as the journey continues.
Well stated. I'm also a cradle Catholic that hasn't been to mass since our parish priest told us that anyone who voted for an abortion supporter was going to hell. I've often thought that it's the people that ruin organized religions.
I absolutely agree with you. How many politicians are against abortion but do nothing for the poor
I can either write a novel in the comments section or keep it short. I will keep it short: how to authentically address the apparent disconnect between being politically engaged and slipping into a sinking spiraling vortex of toxic judgment, moralizing and virtue-signaling is one of the greatest questions of our time ... at least for me.
Some of those extroverted praising and hand waving members of the church are also on a similar faith journey, beset with doubts, concerns, and perhaps confusion. People’s faith journeys ebb and flow and it sounds like you are flowing. I commend to you the National Catholic Reporter’s Michael Sean Winters, who writes on faith and politics. God bless.
Ok...well, you seemed like you judged Biden fairly harshly this morning, didn't you? I can't speak to any of your feelings about religion as it is personal...for me, I think religion is the "root of all evil" 100%. However, I do periodically take my kids to church because I agree with you that occasionally carving out an hour to be reflective is a good thing. I feel you are wrong about Joe Biden...I'm over the moon happy that he pardoned Hunter...who, arguably is troubled, but didn't deserve most of the insane scrutiny he received. And if you are going to talk about people pardoning people ... the pot is really calling the kettle here coming from the GOP.
Agree 💯!
A couple of thoughts right off the bat…
1. Ponder this: you can’t judge and experience at the same time.
2. I think you have more figured out than you may think!
Having a pull towards wanting something fulfilled is pretty much acknowledging it, yes?
There’s faith in God (whatever/however that may be) and then there’s its cultural expression. Many people believe that if the expression of someone’s faith doesn’t match their own, then that person doesn’t have faith in God. This belief/behavior often becomes visible in the political discourse surrounding faith. It’s hard to step outside the behaviors that were instilled as normative when you were a child. I’m an Episcopalian from birth, from a pretty high-church environment. To this day my mom will sit as far away from others and make up reasons to step away to avoid shaking hands or otherwise engaging with others during the “passing of the peace” because it is “too folksy” and makes her feel uncomfortable. The fact that some people actually hug at this time is still astonishing to her. It’s been decades since this became the norm!
My point is, it seems perfectly normal and expected to me that someone raised Catholic would have some level of reaction to a more, shall we say, independent expression during a service!
And I love love love what the guy said to you after the service… what a gift! 💝
Yes, the greatest gift❣️🙏
‘Good for you and your family, Chris. The church (the body of Christ and its members) needs more people like you! You can help them as much as they can help you. Faith in the Lord is just that - faith! If it’s all a big myth - and who can say - it’s a better and more satisfying way of life. Theology is a fascinating study! Thanks for sharing your journey with all of us!
Chris--This is a great time of year to explore your questions. You might want to crack the book that recounts the life the Palistianian rabbi that the Christian faith is about. Church is really for those of us who doubt, fall short, and are afraid and seek comfort--in other words, a place for humman beings. First century Palestine has much in common with the world we live in. Jewish leaders were looking for a political or military leader. Instead, they got someone who did remarkable things but left them frustrated. The Christian faith is truly a life journey.
Thanks for the honesty here, Chris. Fellow journo here (actually, recently retired as a TV news anchor), so naturally skeptical...but not cynical (I hope). I came to the Christian faith in college. You mention lack of "proof" -- but I am satisfied that Christianity is historically rooted and can withstand a strong inspection intellectually. No "proof" like a math proof or philosophical syllogism, but a strong accumulation of evidences from history and philosophy. You might try "The Reason for God" by the late NYC pastor Tim Keller, or his "Making Sense of God." Or the books of former Chicago Tribune reporter (now popular Christian author) Lee Strobel. Or check out the writings of Joe Carter (who has a journ background) at The Gospel Coalition website. Above all, keep seeking! Read widely -- including the Bible, starting with the Gospel of John -- and I think McLean Bible is a good place to go and pose questions to the pastors or elders. Best regards, Rob Vaughn, Quakertown, PA.