My view is the reason that Democracy is not an issue with voters, is that in the US system, Democracy has worked for hundreds of years and continues to work. Citizens have not had to live in a non-democratic society so it is so far out of most US citizens frame of reference that it is not an issue. I absolutely agree with you though that it should be an issue.
Sure, same reason anti-Vaxers became a thing - they never had to watch their classmates die of polio.
It’s why history is cyclical. Won’t believe the stove is hot unless you burn yourself. All you have to do is read the words of the founders to understand how much this democracy thing they gave us is NOT a given.
Exactly. As someone that grew up living overseas and traveling around the world I've seen UN Democratic countries in person (USSR in person.. Boy that dates me) so Democracy is important to me because I know what UN Democracy looks like (dictators in places like Libya, Kenya and Nigeria)... Most Americans don't have a clue.
While Waltz didn't have me at "hello." Vance lost it at "goodbye."
When you cannot answer the most simple question of who won the last election, then you have disqualified yourself from the truth. You have officially sold your soul to the devil.
Vance betrayed his preparation. His confidence. His details. His polish. In one instant, the table wasn't turned on Vance. It was flipped over.
And they cannot put "humpty dumpty" back together again based on a lie.
You know when you’ve lost? When Trump and Fox News start whining before it’s even over.
“When is she going to fact check Tampon Tim on all of his false statements?” Trump raged at one point in the evening after a fact-check from Brennan on climate change. “Another repeat with the Fake News being unfair to the Republican Candidate, and trying to get the pathetic Democrat across the finish line. But it doesn’t matter, the Public sees it for what it is - FAKE NEWS!”
On Fox News, Trump’s mouthpieces echoed the attacks. “CBS was terrible,” Jesse Watters commented. “They should be ashamed,” Sean Hannity said in a separate tirade.
When Obama was elected, I (a conservative) still felt proud that we were a powerful united country. Since Trump ran I feel like the Republican (MAGA) party is tearing the country down and apart. The United States of America IS great and the divisive nature of Trump and the MAGA Team's attack on democracy is the most important issue. We should be encouraging voting and respecting the norms of elections and results. It is the main and most important issue.
For me, determining the debate winner comes down to who I believed. JD was slicker and more “polished”. Very Ivy League. But he racked up the lies throughout. He kept referring to Kamala’s administration. Last time I looked, it is still the Biden administration. VPs don’t set policy, they assist with it. Tim Walz was clearly nervous and I can relate to that. He was anxious about getting his responses right. He has a sincerity that JD (or Trump) can never have, because it is real. I believe he will be a workhorse for Kamala. Did he technically win the debate? I don’t think that is the real question. It is who do we want in the White House. And for me it is Harris Walz.
It said a lot though that JD Vance is more concerned about being allowed to post misinformation on Facebook than accepting the results of a free and fair election.
You may be right that voters don’t care about the democracy arguments. But, for those of us who do care, it’s still critically important to keep making the arguments.
Vance has made it clear that he thinks politics should matter more than the law and courts in a contested election (even if it is “contested” only in the sense that one side is unhappy with the result).
Earlier this year, Vance said “you can’t litigate these things judicially; you have to litigate them politically.”
Speaking about the 2020 election back in February, he said: “If I had been vice president, I would have told the states, like Pennsylvania, Georgia, and so many others, that we needed to have multiple slates of electors. And I think the U.S. Congress should have fought over it from there.”
Politicians shouldn’t be telling the states that have certified election results that they “need to have multiple slates of electors.” This literally disenfranchises voters.
In 2021, Vance said he would tell Trump to “fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state. Replace them with our people… And when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did, and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’”
Vance cannot be trusted to protect democratic institutions and the will of the people.
He's way worse. trump truly believes it. JD changes his thoughts by the minute. trump is mentally ill. Vance is evil and knows what he is doing. Last night was a perfect example. JD dialed back all his rhetoric to appear sane. Insane folks can't do that. If JD was running, he would be getting elected this year.
Chris, I tend to disagree slightly in the sense that I think the Jan 6/election denial/democracy issue does hold more weight than your video today says. Joe Biden was “losing” in the polls for many reasons, mainly his age and the electorate was not excited about him, not his Democracy on the Ballot issue. I do not think there are legitimate undecided voters wrestling with Kamala vs Donald out there, but there are a chunk of moveable ones that are sitting there thinking “I can just stay home and not vote for Trump, or I could actually cast a ballot to prevent this guy from being in the White House (ie maybe a slice of the 249,660 people that voted for Nikki Haley in NC?). An election that appears this close can be decided by a small movement of people that need a clear voting issue that isn’t policy.
I disagreee with you Chris that the undecided voters don't consider the threat to Democracy posed by Trump as serious. I don't claim to know what the voters consider important, but I remember very well that in 2022, Biden warned the Country about Trump's threat to Democracy and I believe that helped the Democrats then and it will help them again in November.
We cannot continue to be a free country with a functioning democracy, if we can’t even have fair elections. One of the tragedies in this attack on our democracy created, is that the greatest defeat of the insurrection and coup, is never accorded proper recognition….Mike Pence. Mr. Pence is a patriot, proven by his actions in refusing to bow to his President’s traitorous decree. That Mike Pence is alive, today, is a permanent stain on the MAGA conspiracy, and movement. That Trump ordered Pence hung, is yet a crime Trump hasn’t been indicted for.
Most people address what's effecting their lives at the moment. Inflation & high prices. Even though inflation is around 21/2 to 3% currently -
I think our generation (baby boomer) have done a disservice to younger generations. By removing government from public schools . If you don't have the knowledge & understanding of how their government works- how do you know enough when you are on the cusp of losing it.
I think younger generations who have witnessed so many mass shootings & actually experience climate change - get it a lot more than prior generations - they need to vote - cuz when democracy is gone - it will effect us all
What I would love to know is what discussions Vance had with his wife when he first decided to stick his nose so far up Trumps ass he can’t see light….do you think she had any reservations about hitching his wagon to the orange one? Sad….
My view is the reason that Democracy is not an issue with voters, is that in the US system, Democracy has worked for hundreds of years and continues to work. Citizens have not had to live in a non-democratic society so it is so far out of most US citizens frame of reference that it is not an issue. I absolutely agree with you though that it should be an issue.
Mike, I think this is exactly right.
Sure, same reason anti-Vaxers became a thing - they never had to watch their classmates die of polio.
It’s why history is cyclical. Won’t believe the stove is hot unless you burn yourself. All you have to do is read the words of the founders to understand how much this democracy thing they gave us is NOT a given.
Exactly. As someone that grew up living overseas and traveling around the world I've seen UN Democratic countries in person (USSR in person.. Boy that dates me) so Democracy is important to me because I know what UN Democracy looks like (dictators in places like Libya, Kenya and Nigeria)... Most Americans don't have a clue.
While Waltz didn't have me at "hello." Vance lost it at "goodbye."
When you cannot answer the most simple question of who won the last election, then you have disqualified yourself from the truth. You have officially sold your soul to the devil.
Vance betrayed his preparation. His confidence. His details. His polish. In one instant, the table wasn't turned on Vance. It was flipped over.
And they cannot put "humpty dumpty" back together again based on a lie.
You know when you’ve lost? When Trump and Fox News start whining before it’s even over.
“When is she going to fact check Tampon Tim on all of his false statements?” Trump raged at one point in the evening after a fact-check from Brennan on climate change. “Another repeat with the Fake News being unfair to the Republican Candidate, and trying to get the pathetic Democrat across the finish line. But it doesn’t matter, the Public sees it for what it is - FAKE NEWS!”
On Fox News, Trump’s mouthpieces echoed the attacks. “CBS was terrible,” Jesse Watters commented. “They should be ashamed,” Sean Hannity said in a separate tirade.
When Obama was elected, I (a conservative) still felt proud that we were a powerful united country. Since Trump ran I feel like the Republican (MAGA) party is tearing the country down and apart. The United States of America IS great and the divisive nature of Trump and the MAGA Team's attack on democracy is the most important issue. We should be encouraging voting and respecting the norms of elections and results. It is the main and most important issue.
I agree!
For me, determining the debate winner comes down to who I believed. JD was slicker and more “polished”. Very Ivy League. But he racked up the lies throughout. He kept referring to Kamala’s administration. Last time I looked, it is still the Biden administration. VPs don’t set policy, they assist with it. Tim Walz was clearly nervous and I can relate to that. He was anxious about getting his responses right. He has a sincerity that JD (or Trump) can never have, because it is real. I believe he will be a workhorse for Kamala. Did he technically win the debate? I don’t think that is the real question. It is who do we want in the White House. And for me it is Harris Walz.
Agree 💯! He clearly showed his concern for the welfare of the American people throughout the debate.
This posting does not make up for your ridiculous comments about JD Vance mediately after the debate. Face it, Chris, you screwed up.
It said a lot though that JD Vance is more concerned about being allowed to post misinformation on Facebook than accepting the results of a free and fair election.
Disagree, I think JD is most concerned about trying to put this country back together after the damage this administration has done.
But did Trump win the election in 2020?
No, but the media, big tech and the bureaucratic system definitely rigged it in Biden's favor.
Lol.
You may be right that voters don’t care about the democracy arguments. But, for those of us who do care, it’s still critically important to keep making the arguments.
Vance has made it clear that he thinks politics should matter more than the law and courts in a contested election (even if it is “contested” only in the sense that one side is unhappy with the result).
Earlier this year, Vance said “you can’t litigate these things judicially; you have to litigate them politically.”
Speaking about the 2020 election back in February, he said: “If I had been vice president, I would have told the states, like Pennsylvania, Georgia, and so many others, that we needed to have multiple slates of electors. And I think the U.S. Congress should have fought over it from there.”
Politicians shouldn’t be telling the states that have certified election results that they “need to have multiple slates of electors.” This literally disenfranchises voters.
In 2021, Vance said he would tell Trump to “fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state. Replace them with our people… And when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did, and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’”
Vance cannot be trusted to protect democratic institutions and the will of the people.
Vance is cut from the same “traitor” cloth as tRump.
He's way worse. trump truly believes it. JD changes his thoughts by the minute. trump is mentally ill. Vance is evil and knows what he is doing. Last night was a perfect example. JD dialed back all his rhetoric to appear sane. Insane folks can't do that. If JD was running, he would be getting elected this year.
Chris, I tend to disagree slightly in the sense that I think the Jan 6/election denial/democracy issue does hold more weight than your video today says. Joe Biden was “losing” in the polls for many reasons, mainly his age and the electorate was not excited about him, not his Democracy on the Ballot issue. I do not think there are legitimate undecided voters wrestling with Kamala vs Donald out there, but there are a chunk of moveable ones that are sitting there thinking “I can just stay home and not vote for Trump, or I could actually cast a ballot to prevent this guy from being in the White House (ie maybe a slice of the 249,660 people that voted for Nikki Haley in NC?). An election that appears this close can be decided by a small movement of people that need a clear voting issue that isn’t policy.
Clearly Vance won on style, if not content. I’m bluer than blue, but I read SO WHAT to get an objective opinion from a man I respect.
He calls them like he sees them.
I appreciate that.
I disagreee with you Chris that the undecided voters don't consider the threat to Democracy posed by Trump as serious. I don't claim to know what the voters consider important, but I remember very well that in 2022, Biden warned the Country about Trump's threat to Democracy and I believe that helped the Democrats then and it will help them again in November.
We cannot continue to be a free country with a functioning democracy, if we can’t even have fair elections. One of the tragedies in this attack on our democracy created, is that the greatest defeat of the insurrection and coup, is never accorded proper recognition….Mike Pence. Mr. Pence is a patriot, proven by his actions in refusing to bow to his President’s traitorous decree. That Mike Pence is alive, today, is a permanent stain on the MAGA conspiracy, and movement. That Trump ordered Pence hung, is yet a crime Trump hasn’t been indicted for.
i hate to admit you are right! This should be THE issue! Yet we are being fed clowns at the circus while the tent burns down.
Vance really wanted that VP nod!
And he got it by saying the things he did.
Does he believe in what he said? I doubt it. Disqualifying? Yes. But as you said, for the public it’s bread and butter issues. Ty Chris.
Yes, Vance refusing to admit that Trump lost in 2020 in fact IS disqualifying.
Full. Stop.
The idea that that view (read: reality) “is simply not shared by voters who haven’t made up their mind about the 2024 election.” is the problem.
A BIG problem.
Our democracy is in grave danger.
Most people address what's effecting their lives at the moment. Inflation & high prices. Even though inflation is around 21/2 to 3% currently -
I think our generation (baby boomer) have done a disservice to younger generations. By removing government from public schools . If you don't have the knowledge & understanding of how their government works- how do you know enough when you are on the cusp of losing it.
I think younger generations who have witnessed so many mass shootings & actually experience climate change - get it a lot more than prior generations - they need to vote - cuz when democracy is gone - it will effect us all
What I would love to know is what discussions Vance had with his wife when he first decided to stick his nose so far up Trumps ass he can’t see light….do you think she had any reservations about hitching his wagon to the orange one? Sad….