Pence isn't a hero. He spent four+ years enabling the guy at every opportunity knowing full well who he was and then Trump turned on him like everyone else. I'm glad he didn't plunge us into a Constitutional crisis, but he also did the bare minimum, and he was still spewing BS about how fair the 2020 election was.
Agree, hero isn't quite the right word. Yes, I am grateful that he did do the right thing that one time, and it was the one time when it made a huge difference. But, just like all the rest who have been knowingly ignoring TFG's lies and faults or actively promoting the lies, he has had years and years that he could have stepped up and done the right thing. I find it especially galling that he didn't from someone who wears the mantle of religious righteousness wrapped so tightly around his shoulders. Yes, perhaps that ONE DAY he did something heroic, but one day does not a hero make. This is more about HIM than anything else.
If anyone had told me a few years ago that the last vestiges of American democracy would come down to former VPs Dan Quayle and Mike Pence, I'd have told them that they were nuts.
I'm glad that Pence did the right thing on Jan. 6. But he lost my respect because of his unwillingness to tell the truth immediately afterwards and condemn Trump's actions. Just saying that he had a difference of opinion on the matter than Trump wasn't nearly enough. Even recently he said that he wasn't sure Trump's actions were "criminal". Give me a break.
Exactly. This noble pious patriot act would be much more believable if he had testified for the Jan. 6 Committee for voters to understand the scope of the threat trump posed then and why it's an ongoing threat.
He was still trying to have it both ways. Only now that it's truly hopeless has he been liberated to be so forthright.
Think of it as a "Farewell Tour" by an aging Christian Music star legally burning through his campaign $$$ as he and Mother ride off into the sunset...once he learns how to fill his gas tank.
Mike Pence will have the stench of Trump sticking to his legacy forever.
He had one day of integrity after four years of shameless acquiesce to a man who he knew was an amoral charlatan and totally unfit for the presidency. He being (supposedly) a devout Christian, like the majority of hypocritical mob of so-called Evangelicals, literally sold his soul to the devil.
Trump (charitably) has broken, with shameless glee, at least 8 of the 10 Commandments. We don’t know if he honored his parents and the question of killing people is too ambiguous although his purposeful lying about the extreme danger of Covid and his incredibly awful response to the pandemic did indeed cost more than 100,000 lives needlessly.
No Christian who takes their faith seriously would have anything to do with this evil man.
His heroic display of adherence to the rule of law on ONE DAY of four years reminds me of the opening scene of the Godfather, when undertaker Bonasera asks Vito Corleone to “seek justice” and kill the men that viciously beat his daughter. Don Corleone, citing that killing these men is not “justice” because his daughter is still alive. So, he agrees to "make then suffer”.
Mike Pence enabled his boss, a corrupt un-Christian amoral monster of a man who thinks, acts and talks like a Mafia mobster to viciously attack this country’s democratic values and rule of law, but would not cross the one remaining line in the sand of betrayal by “murdering” the Constitution on Jan 6th.
In the world of criminal mobsters enterprise better known as the Trump Administration, it’s an act of benevolence similar to Don Vito’s gift to Bonasera on his daughters wedding day.
This makes more sense than anything else I’ve read about Pence. He was like a minor villain in a story that at the end won’t cross that final bridge. Maybe hero is too strong a word, but it isn’t far off.
Not buying. If he were running to reclaim what is left of his "good name", that would have started the day he announced. Instead, he tried to thread the needle. He only became righteous when it was clear he told the truth to Jack Smith. Once that was out, he had to act consistently with his testimony.
I think you are exactly right about Pence. All of the bigly major candidates (Trump (I'm the Don of the Republican Party), DeSantis (deUnderstudy), Ramaswamy (the Wingman), Pence (Redemption), and Christie (The Nemesis) have clear theories about the race, even if there is not a winning path. I do not understand the theories of the small-ly major candidates (everyone else). (Yes, I am calling Tim Scott and Nikki Haley small-ly candidates. Yes, I think I am right. And yes, I think they know it, too.). The small-ly candidates' presence only make sense if they think MAGA is going to implode.
Not in Indiana...he's despised by the MAGA ReTrumplican'ts and is yesterday's news to the corporate elite.
Even the White Evangelicals won't have him since he actually seems to beleive some of Jesus's tenets, while many Evangelicals think the Sermon on the Mount is Marxist claptrap.
Or if Pence just stepped aside and Grassley had to run things in his place (a possibility grassley had basically announced prior to jan 6) it's certainly seems like Grassley would have done what Trump wanted. And yes then we would be talking about a completely awful situation
I'm pretty sure you're amplifying to make a point and you're not wrong, but you know were that actually the case, several members of the Insurrection caucus would have happily led Grassley into the House Chamber.
Hogwash. Pence, like many of his ilk, hides behind a shield of religious zealotry so he can further the anti-gay, anti-immigrant, anti women’s rights agenda of the rest of his party. His obscenely obsequious pandering cannot be undone by a single instance where he followed the law. His place in history is already carved in stone.
Chris, I was thinking about the same thing the other day when Pence became more forceful in his defense of his actions, I believe when the 3rd Indictment came down.
I think of the lines from Hamilton (without chorus),
"History had its eyes on me."
"You have no control:
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story."
I sense Pence has become well aware of what his place ih history might have become, and how it might be impacted by his testimony in the upcoming trial(s), assuming they happen. Most likely, if Pence testifies as is anticipated from the references in the indictment, and in the his recent comments, he will be vilified by Trump (already started) and by the other MAGA followers. Unless circumstances somehow change, he will be brutalized by the MAGA faithful, terribly, and the calls of "Pence is a Traitor", etc. will be load.
So yes, he may well be on an effort to create a rehabilitated history.
Yes, on January 6th, he did something courageous, and may well have saved the country from a existential threat to America and Democracy. Pence does deserve credit for this, yet, in totality, does it make Pence a hero? January 6 followed four (4) years of absolute blind allegiance to Trump, and then was followed by two (2) plus years of silence, denial, and a lack of cooperation in public with any of the inquiries. If Pence had stood up on January 6, 7, 8, etc. to tell the truth, and/or during the 2nd Impeachment (or even to the January 6th Congressional Committee), and said clearly what had happened, and had been clear with the Republican Legislative Leaders at the time, providing them a little more coverage, Trump very possibly would have been convicted by the Senate. And we would not be living in fear of Trump running for President again...
So, I can acknowledge Pence did something heroic on January 6th (for which we all should be grateful), however, I find it difficult to consider giving him more credit overall, at least until we see how truthfully and forcefully he testifies.
Nevertheless, to your premise, I would agree Pence is being mindful of how he might be remembered in history, and is trying to lay down some evidence he should be remembered more kindly than based solely on the first four (4) years of his Vice Presidency, and his two years of silence post January 6th.
"Sometimes there's a man — I won't say a hero, 'cause what's a hero? — but sometimes there's a man."
I hope he’s not running to be a martyr and has some great security. Hate to go all dark after quoting GOAT movie, but Mike Pence is a witness against what a sizable and insane and too heavily armed segment of our citizenry consider the GOAT president.
They did want to hang him over his perceived treachery, after all.
"Donny was a good bowler, and a good man. He was one of us. He was a man who loved the outdoors... and bowling, and as a surfer he explored the beaches of Southern California, from La Jolla to Leo Carrillo and... up to... Pismo. He died, like so many young men of his generation, he died before his time. In your wisdom, Lord, you took him, as you took so many bright flowering young men at Khe Sanh, at Langdok, at Hill 364. These young men gave their lives. And so would Donny. Donny, who loved bowling. And so, Theodore Donald Karabotsos, in accordance with what we think your dying wishes might well have been, we commit your final mortal remains to the bosom of the Pacific Ocean, which you loved so well.
Pence did the right thing at one important point, after 4 years of providing an Evangelical endorsement to everything Trump did. You be the judge.
I don't often disagree with JVL, but here, I do. That one stand where Pence did the right thing does not make up 4 years of idiotic, sycophantic enabling.
Pence could have saved our country by agreeing to do the 25th amendment on Trump very early on. Think how much better off we'd all be.
Maybe Pence is running because he thinks it's God's will that he be president? One of the quotes from Pence's book is, "the safest place to be is at the center of God's will".
An interesting take on why Pence is running. I, too, have questioned the heroism aspect as he was doing his job. He was the Vice President of the United States and with that, carries his duties that took place 01/06/2021. He even questioned it but ultimately did the right thing. There has never been a path for him to win the nomination and perhaps, the goal is to “clear” his name. As long as he doesn’t try to rewrite history, it may be the best thing for him. At the end of the day, if he feels he can hold his head up high, it’s okay. However, with that being said, to me it’s more than January 6th. It’s about his actions, or inactions from 01/20/2021 and what the country went though with the leadership of TFG.
In my Book , Mike Pence is a Hero for having the courage to contest for the Presidency against his former boss that he worked side by side with for four years(that should tell all Americans something about Donald Trump). Second reason why I think Pence is a Hero is of course his insistence on choosing to obey the constitution rather than dancing to Trump's tune even at the risk of his life . his family and his political career. His family and the the generations to come will forever be proud of him for that. We can say that of many Politicians these days
Pence isn't a hero. He spent four+ years enabling the guy at every opportunity knowing full well who he was and then Trump turned on him like everyone else. I'm glad he didn't plunge us into a Constitutional crisis, but he also did the bare minimum, and he was still spewing BS about how fair the 2020 election was.
It's a fair point, Sam. But I do think sometimes doing your job -- in the most extreme of circumstances -- counts for a huge amount
Sometimes just doing your job for one day is heroism.
Chris, I appreciate your insight, I hadn't thought about Pence's run in that way. I think you're right.
Thanks, David.
I appreciate you saying that as I debate whether to play another game of Solitaire or go back to work.
He did the right thing and I'm glad he did, I just don't know if hero is the right word.
Sam, try Microsoft's "TriPeaks Solitaire" it's a nice change of pace.😉🙃
Agree, hero isn't quite the right word. Yes, I am grateful that he did do the right thing that one time, and it was the one time when it made a huge difference. But, just like all the rest who have been knowingly ignoring TFG's lies and faults or actively promoting the lies, he has had years and years that he could have stepped up and done the right thing. I find it especially galling that he didn't from someone who wears the mantle of religious righteousness wrapped so tightly around his shoulders. Yes, perhaps that ONE DAY he did something heroic, but one day does not a hero make. This is more about HIM than anything else.
At last, he stood up for us.
If anyone had told me a few years ago that the last vestiges of American democracy would come down to former VPs Dan Quayle and Mike Pence, I'd have told them that they were nuts.
It's pretty damn wild.
I'm glad that Pence did the right thing on Jan. 6. But he lost my respect because of his unwillingness to tell the truth immediately afterwards and condemn Trump's actions. Just saying that he had a difference of opinion on the matter than Trump wasn't nearly enough. Even recently he said that he wasn't sure Trump's actions were "criminal". Give me a break.
Exactly. This noble pious patriot act would be much more believable if he had testified for the Jan. 6 Committee for voters to understand the scope of the threat trump posed then and why it's an ongoing threat.
He was still trying to have it both ways. Only now that it's truly hopeless has he been liberated to be so forthright.
Chris,
Per Pence's running for president:
Think of it as a "Farewell Tour" by an aging Christian Music star legally burning through his campaign $$$ as he and Mother ride off into the sunset...once he learns how to fill his gas tank.
Mike Pence will have the stench of Trump sticking to his legacy forever.
He had one day of integrity after four years of shameless acquiesce to a man who he knew was an amoral charlatan and totally unfit for the presidency. He being (supposedly) a devout Christian, like the majority of hypocritical mob of so-called Evangelicals, literally sold his soul to the devil.
Trump (charitably) has broken, with shameless glee, at least 8 of the 10 Commandments. We don’t know if he honored his parents and the question of killing people is too ambiguous although his purposeful lying about the extreme danger of Covid and his incredibly awful response to the pandemic did indeed cost more than 100,000 lives needlessly.
No Christian who takes their faith seriously would have anything to do with this evil man.
His heroic display of adherence to the rule of law on ONE DAY of four years reminds me of the opening scene of the Godfather, when undertaker Bonasera asks Vito Corleone to “seek justice” and kill the men that viciously beat his daughter. Don Corleone, citing that killing these men is not “justice” because his daughter is still alive. So, he agrees to "make then suffer”.
Mike Pence enabled his boss, a corrupt un-Christian amoral monster of a man who thinks, acts and talks like a Mafia mobster to viciously attack this country’s democratic values and rule of law, but would not cross the one remaining line in the sand of betrayal by “murdering” the Constitution on Jan 6th.
In the world of criminal mobsters enterprise better known as the Trump Administration, it’s an act of benevolence similar to Don Vito’s gift to Bonasera on his daughters wedding day.
This makes more sense than anything else I’ve read about Pence. He was like a minor villain in a story that at the end won’t cross that final bridge. Maybe hero is too strong a word, but it isn’t far off.
Not buying. If he were running to reclaim what is left of his "good name", that would have started the day he announced. Instead, he tried to thread the needle. He only became righteous when it was clear he told the truth to Jack Smith. Once that was out, he had to act consistently with his testimony.
I think you are exactly right about Pence. All of the bigly major candidates (Trump (I'm the Don of the Republican Party), DeSantis (deUnderstudy), Ramaswamy (the Wingman), Pence (Redemption), and Christie (The Nemesis) have clear theories about the race, even if there is not a winning path. I do not understand the theories of the small-ly major candidates (everyone else). (Yes, I am calling Tim Scott and Nikki Haley small-ly candidates. Yes, I think I am right. And yes, I think they know it, too.). The small-ly candidates' presence only make sense if they think MAGA is going to implode.
Or they're really running for Vice President.
Definitely Scott and Haley are going for VP.
I'd add Ramaswamy to that list.
He'd be a drag on the ticket, there would be much more discussion about him being a Hindu.
Seems like he's after a cabinet position.
MAGA types seem to love him, though--he says "all the right things", and even his Orange mentor speaks well of him.
The guy is scary...take the vote away from 18 to 24 year olds?
So one could serve in the military and not vote?
One could be a college graduate and not vote?
One could start-up a business and not vote?
His parents are from the Brahman class in India, got fast forwarded on immigration status, so he was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple
I think you are correct and there also future elections to consider. Perhaps for lesser offices than President.
Maybe! I hadn't thought of that.
Not in Indiana...he's despised by the MAGA ReTrumplican'ts and is yesterday's news to the corporate elite.
Even the White Evangelicals won't have him since he actually seems to beleive some of Jesus's tenets, while many Evangelicals think the Sermon on the Mount is Marxist claptrap.
I sense Pence's career in public service is done...
We all know Chuck Grassley was willing to do what Pence would not so evidence that yes the rest of the Republicans might have acted differently
I do think that if Pence has bent to Trump's will, we could be legitimately be talking about the overthrow of democracy. Legitimately.
Or if Pence just stepped aside and Grassley had to run things in his place (a possibility grassley had basically announced prior to jan 6) it's certainly seems like Grassley would have done what Trump wanted. And yes then we would be talking about a completely awful situation
Grassley would not have known which door to use to get into the House Chamber.
I'm pretty sure you're amplifying to make a point and you're not wrong, but you know were that actually the case, several members of the Insurrection caucus would have happily led Grassley into the House Chamber.
Hopefully, he wouldn't have to depend on Diane Feinstein.
Those two might have ended over at the reflection pool, which would have totally confused the 90-year olds.
Hogwash. Pence, like many of his ilk, hides behind a shield of religious zealotry so he can further the anti-gay, anti-immigrant, anti women’s rights agenda of the rest of his party. His obscenely obsequious pandering cannot be undone by a single instance where he followed the law. His place in history is already carved in stone.
Chris, I was thinking about the same thing the other day when Pence became more forceful in his defense of his actions, I believe when the 3rd Indictment came down.
I think of the lines from Hamilton (without chorus),
"History had its eyes on me."
"You have no control:
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story."
I sense Pence has become well aware of what his place ih history might have become, and how it might be impacted by his testimony in the upcoming trial(s), assuming they happen. Most likely, if Pence testifies as is anticipated from the references in the indictment, and in the his recent comments, he will be vilified by Trump (already started) and by the other MAGA followers. Unless circumstances somehow change, he will be brutalized by the MAGA faithful, terribly, and the calls of "Pence is a Traitor", etc. will be load.
So yes, he may well be on an effort to create a rehabilitated history.
Yes, on January 6th, he did something courageous, and may well have saved the country from a existential threat to America and Democracy. Pence does deserve credit for this, yet, in totality, does it make Pence a hero? January 6 followed four (4) years of absolute blind allegiance to Trump, and then was followed by two (2) plus years of silence, denial, and a lack of cooperation in public with any of the inquiries. If Pence had stood up on January 6, 7, 8, etc. to tell the truth, and/or during the 2nd Impeachment (or even to the January 6th Congressional Committee), and said clearly what had happened, and had been clear with the Republican Legislative Leaders at the time, providing them a little more coverage, Trump very possibly would have been convicted by the Senate. And we would not be living in fear of Trump running for President again...
So, I can acknowledge Pence did something heroic on January 6th (for which we all should be grateful), however, I find it difficult to consider giving him more credit overall, at least until we see how truthfully and forcefully he testifies.
Nevertheless, to your premise, I would agree Pence is being mindful of how he might be remembered in history, and is trying to lay down some evidence he should be remembered more kindly than based solely on the first four (4) years of his Vice Presidency, and his two years of silence post January 6th.
"Sometimes there's a man — I won't say a hero, 'cause what's a hero? — but sometimes there's a man."
I hope he’s not running to be a martyr and has some great security. Hate to go all dark after quoting GOAT movie, but Mike Pence is a witness against what a sizable and insane and too heavily armed segment of our citizenry consider the GOAT president.
They did want to hang him over his perceived treachery, after all.
Just in case tho:
"Donny was a good bowler, and a good man. He was one of us. He was a man who loved the outdoors... and bowling, and as a surfer he explored the beaches of Southern California, from La Jolla to Leo Carrillo and... up to... Pismo. He died, like so many young men of his generation, he died before his time. In your wisdom, Lord, you took him, as you took so many bright flowering young men at Khe Sanh, at Langdok, at Hill 364. These young men gave their lives. And so would Donny. Donny, who loved bowling. And so, Theodore Donald Karabotsos, in accordance with what we think your dying wishes might well have been, we commit your final mortal remains to the bosom of the Pacific Ocean, which you loved so well.
Good night, sweet prince."
Always be careful of the wind whipping up from the shore.
I have been ordained by the church of the latter day dude if anyone requires my services.
https://dudeism.com
Pence did the right thing at one important point, after 4 years of providing an Evangelical endorsement to everything Trump did. You be the judge.
I don't often disagree with JVL, but here, I do. That one stand where Pence did the right thing does not make up 4 years of idiotic, sycophantic enabling.
Pence could have saved our country by agreeing to do the 25th amendment on Trump very early on. Think how much better off we'd all be.
Not being the villain is not enough to be considered the hero.
Maybe Pence is running because he thinks it's God's will that he be president? One of the quotes from Pence's book is, "the safest place to be is at the center of God's will".
An interesting take on why Pence is running. I, too, have questioned the heroism aspect as he was doing his job. He was the Vice President of the United States and with that, carries his duties that took place 01/06/2021. He even questioned it but ultimately did the right thing. There has never been a path for him to win the nomination and perhaps, the goal is to “clear” his name. As long as he doesn’t try to rewrite history, it may be the best thing for him. At the end of the day, if he feels he can hold his head up high, it’s okay. However, with that being said, to me it’s more than January 6th. It’s about his actions, or inactions from 01/20/2021 and what the country went though with the leadership of TFG.
In my Book , Mike Pence is a Hero for having the courage to contest for the Presidency against his former boss that he worked side by side with for four years(that should tell all Americans something about Donald Trump). Second reason why I think Pence is a Hero is of course his insistence on choosing to obey the constitution rather than dancing to Trump's tune even at the risk of his life . his family and his political career. His family and the the generations to come will forever be proud of him for that. We can say that of many Politicians these days