After the way he blatantly sucked up to Trump for four interminable years, it really is a marvel that he stood up to him at just the right time. I guess there's a smidgen of integrity in him somewhere.
I recognize that Pence did his job at a crucial point. I still don't like him or applaud him. It should not have been an agonizing decision for him. It shouldn't have been a decision at all. But Pence consulted all sorts of lawyers, had a long conversation with Dan Quayle (and maybe Al Gore), and prayed a lot. There should never, ever have been a question in his mind about what was right.
This is a man who turned Indiana back into another hotbed of AIDS because of his religious convictions. He spouted the line about Christians being persecuted in the US when he should have looked to Yazidis in Iraq during the reign of ISIS to see what true religious persection looks like. He deliberately wasted tens of thousands of dollars in a performance at a football game, getting up and leaving because players knelt during the National Anthem, probably at the behest of Dumpy. He was booed when he went to a performance of "Hamilton" and didn't have the grace to be embarrassed or chastened, or even question himself about the reason behind it. No, Pence is in absolutely no way a hero and he doesn't deserve to be seen as one by history.
Mike Pence lost any credibility that he may have amassed by doing the right thing on 1/6 and by being critical of Donald Trump, when he said that he will support the Republican candidate for President…who will be Donald Trump. To support inflicting another Trump presidency on the American people when you have the inside scoop on exactly what that means, is unforgivable.
Pence, to me, is the best example of why the Republican Party is where it is these days. He spent his entire political career - in and out of office - before 2015 building up the demand for Trump when he took the escalator.
He gets two pensions one from the the state of Indiana for having been a state Rep and governor that amount to almost a half million paid out monthly for life and a federal pension for being a Congressperson for 12 years and V.P for 4 years amounting to about 1.1 million paid monthly for his lifetime.
In 2021, CNN reported that Pence had signed a two-book deal with Simon & Schuster that has been rumored to be worth between $3 million and $4 million, according to publishing insiders. He bought an almost $2 million house in Carmel, Indiana (outside Indy) for a good portion of that advance.
He's in the top 10% of the wealthy. Plus he got $25k per private speeches before declaring for prez.
Your student is wise indeed. I believe you’re correct. Thats all he wanted. For people to know he did the right thing even though he had to double check w dan Quayle. More than once. 🥹
Im waiting for Mike and Mother to open the next crack-ass evango mega church. Everyone knows thats where the big money is, and its tax free.
I agree with you and your student, Chris: Pence, like so many other former Trump administration sycophants, was on his "rehabilitation tour", much more than actually running for the Presidency.
That said, given how much the Trump Cult Members absolutely hate him, I just couldn't see a way that he could "thread the needle", i.e. taking credit for the Trump administration's "successes" yet defining himself separately, made even harder by the very slim resume of what could be considered legislative "successes" (Tax cuts for the wealthy/corporations? Shifting SCOTUS far enough to the Right to overturn Roe v Wade?).
And he ran for a very long time without saying much negative about Trump, until the point at which he HAD to.
And did his single act of courage and conviction "balance out" the damage that he did over those 4+ years of being nothing more than a fawning "Yes Man"? In that this conversation would have been VERY much different if he hadn't, I suppose you may be right.
But how much of that single act of courage and conviction was actual dedication to upholding the Constitution, and how much of it was a (reasonable) reaction to the danger that Trump put Pence and his family in on Jan. 6th? The fear in that moment must have been intense, and fear is an extremely strong motivator...
The only person to gaze more adoringly upon an incumbent president in my lifetime -- and I go back to FDR -- was Nancy looking adoringly at Ronnie. Just sayin'.............
2. Pence wanted to be president as the spokesperson and champion of the put-upon American Christians and bring back the Founding Fathers' ideal of an Evangelical Christian America they so eloquently wrote about (in his mind).
From the outset of his political career the "Rush Limbaugh on Decafe*" made a show of being morally superior to other Christians, with a total disregard for all other religions, except for the Jews who are patch-worked into to his looney Revelations "End Times" philosophy.
[* By using this "humorous" (in his mind) term, Marionette Mike probably didn't realize he was taking on the mantel of an outright bigoted misogynist, who ridiculed the poor, immigrants, and (wait for it) Libs! Limby was the champion of White Victimization.]
While Limbaugh made his statements loud and clear, Pence winked and smirked about his similar attitudes.
3. Believed he "earned" being president by being the most openly sycophantic Vice President in American history.
Problem was that no one knew Pence's role did on a day-to-day basis. But when the Sycophant-In-Chief was given the role of "Czar for the Covid Pandemic" he was immediately big-footed by the Rasputin of the White House.
It was obvious that the Criminal-in-Chief, would send a courier to Mother to pick up Marionette Mike's cojones, to be returned in the evening before the two sat down to the listen "The Olde Time Christian Hour" together.
Courageous? Maybe, in light of the pressure that was placed on him. But I think he researched every possible angle to do Trump's bidding, only acting as he did because he'd exhausted every possibility that might allow him to get away with it. I think, rather than standing up for the country and the constitution, he refused Trump's bidding for selfish self-preservation.
Under the pressure Pence felt he was under, I am sure it felt courageous, what he did on Jan. 6 & 7. I think, when the shouting is over, we may find Pence's decision was probably more from fear - fear he would be arrested that day for supporting the coup, and maybe for treason. To your point, I think he was searching for anyone credible (not Eastman, for example) to provide him cover so he could go along, and finding none, it confirmed his staff was correct, and he feared if he went along with Trump, his political career and legacy was over.
Fear can be a powerful motivator - acting on fear does not necessarily equate courageous or heroic...
P.S. - If Pence really thought his actions on January 6 were courageous, why did he wait so long to finally, meekly, admit he had defied Trump on January 6? Why did he not provide evidence in the 2nd impeachment, or to the Congressional Committee investigating January 6? No, he waited until he was backed into a corner, I believe around the first Republican Debate....
Pence is emblematic of what is so very wrong with the Republican Party. He chose the U.S. Constitution over Trump and Republican voters cannot abide it. That should terrify us all.
Over and over and over, starting with his decision to join Trump's campaign, Pence did the wrong thing. He backed every lie Trump told, putting his slimy Evangelical sheen on them. He enabled Trump for 4 years, denying that there was anything wrong with or about it.
But yeah, Jan. 6 he refused to go along because no one he asked gave him a good excuse. Not even Quayle.
Pence and the GOP created the monster that got out of control. Did Pence do the right thing on Jan. 6? Sure, but he deserves at least some of the blame for putting himself in that situation.
Pence could have been a hero if he had testified before the Jan. 6th Committee. He really struggled to go big and tell his story after Trump sided with the crowd to Hang Mike Pence!!
After the way he blatantly sucked up to Trump for four interminable years, it really is a marvel that he stood up to him at just the right time. I guess there's a smidgen of integrity in him somewhere.
Yup. That's his legacy! The good and the bad!
I recognize that Pence did his job at a crucial point. I still don't like him or applaud him. It should not have been an agonizing decision for him. It shouldn't have been a decision at all. But Pence consulted all sorts of lawyers, had a long conversation with Dan Quayle (and maybe Al Gore), and prayed a lot. There should never, ever have been a question in his mind about what was right.
This is a man who turned Indiana back into another hotbed of AIDS because of his religious convictions. He spouted the line about Christians being persecuted in the US when he should have looked to Yazidis in Iraq during the reign of ISIS to see what true religious persection looks like. He deliberately wasted tens of thousands of dollars in a performance at a football game, getting up and leaving because players knelt during the National Anthem, probably at the behest of Dumpy. He was booed when he went to a performance of "Hamilton" and didn't have the grace to be embarrassed or chastened, or even question himself about the reason behind it. No, Pence is in absolutely no way a hero and he doesn't deserve to be seen as one by history.
Mike Pence lost any credibility that he may have amassed by doing the right thing on 1/6 and by being critical of Donald Trump, when he said that he will support the Republican candidate for President…who will be Donald Trump. To support inflicting another Trump presidency on the American people when you have the inside scoop on exactly what that means, is unforgivable.
Pence, to me, is the best example of why the Republican Party is where it is these days. He spent his entire political career - in and out of office - before 2015 building up the demand for Trump when he took the escalator.
It's crazy he spent $150,000 of his own money just to remind people of that, when he's not a wealthy man.
That was a brutal detail, I agree.
He gets two pensions one from the the state of Indiana for having been a state Rep and governor that amount to almost a half million paid out monthly for life and a federal pension for being a Congressperson for 12 years and V.P for 4 years amounting to about 1.1 million paid monthly for his lifetime.
In 2021, CNN reported that Pence had signed a two-book deal with Simon & Schuster that has been rumored to be worth between $3 million and $4 million, according to publishing insiders. He bought an almost $2 million house in Carmel, Indiana (outside Indy) for a good portion of that advance.
He's in the top 10% of the wealthy. Plus he got $25k per private speeches before declaring for prez.
_Begrudgingly_ did the right thing, but only after phoning Quayle, “Is there anything I can do here? No? Ok...”
True enough. But still did the right thing in the end.
Seriously. Can you imagine if he had NOT done the right thing? We’d be infinitely more forked.
So true!
Your student is wise indeed. I believe you’re correct. Thats all he wanted. For people to know he did the right thing even though he had to double check w dan Quayle. More than once. 🥹
Im waiting for Mike and Mother to open the next crack-ass evango mega church. Everyone knows thats where the big money is, and its tax free.
I agree with you and your student, Chris: Pence, like so many other former Trump administration sycophants, was on his "rehabilitation tour", much more than actually running for the Presidency.
That said, given how much the Trump Cult Members absolutely hate him, I just couldn't see a way that he could "thread the needle", i.e. taking credit for the Trump administration's "successes" yet defining himself separately, made even harder by the very slim resume of what could be considered legislative "successes" (Tax cuts for the wealthy/corporations? Shifting SCOTUS far enough to the Right to overturn Roe v Wade?).
And he ran for a very long time without saying much negative about Trump, until the point at which he HAD to.
And did his single act of courage and conviction "balance out" the damage that he did over those 4+ years of being nothing more than a fawning "Yes Man"? In that this conversation would have been VERY much different if he hadn't, I suppose you may be right.
But how much of that single act of courage and conviction was actual dedication to upholding the Constitution, and how much of it was a (reasonable) reaction to the danger that Trump put Pence and his family in on Jan. 6th? The fear in that moment must have been intense, and fear is an extremely strong motivator...
The only person to gaze more adoringly upon an incumbent president in my lifetime -- and I go back to FDR -- was Nancy looking adoringly at Ronnie. Just sayin'.............
RE: Why Mike Pence ran?
How to count the ways:
1. Mother, who holds his cajones in her purse
2. Pence wanted to be president as the spokesperson and champion of the put-upon American Christians and bring back the Founding Fathers' ideal of an Evangelical Christian America they so eloquently wrote about (in his mind).
From the outset of his political career the "Rush Limbaugh on Decafe*" made a show of being morally superior to other Christians, with a total disregard for all other religions, except for the Jews who are patch-worked into to his looney Revelations "End Times" philosophy.
[* By using this "humorous" (in his mind) term, Marionette Mike probably didn't realize he was taking on the mantel of an outright bigoted misogynist, who ridiculed the poor, immigrants, and (wait for it) Libs! Limby was the champion of White Victimization.]
While Limbaugh made his statements loud and clear, Pence winked and smirked about his similar attitudes.
3. Believed he "earned" being president by being the most openly sycophantic Vice President in American history.
Problem was that no one knew Pence's role did on a day-to-day basis. But when the Sycophant-In-Chief was given the role of "Czar for the Covid Pandemic" he was immediately big-footed by the Rasputin of the White House.
It was obvious that the Criminal-in-Chief, would send a courier to Mother to pick up Marionette Mike's cojones, to be returned in the evening before the two sat down to the listen "The Olde Time Christian Hour" together.
4. Mother --- see #1.
Courageous? Maybe, in light of the pressure that was placed on him. But I think he researched every possible angle to do Trump's bidding, only acting as he did because he'd exhausted every possibility that might allow him to get away with it. I think, rather than standing up for the country and the constitution, he refused Trump's bidding for selfish self-preservation.
Under the pressure Pence felt he was under, I am sure it felt courageous, what he did on Jan. 6 & 7. I think, when the shouting is over, we may find Pence's decision was probably more from fear - fear he would be arrested that day for supporting the coup, and maybe for treason. To your point, I think he was searching for anyone credible (not Eastman, for example) to provide him cover so he could go along, and finding none, it confirmed his staff was correct, and he feared if he went along with Trump, his political career and legacy was over.
Fear can be a powerful motivator - acting on fear does not necessarily equate courageous or heroic...
P.S. - If Pence really thought his actions on January 6 were courageous, why did he wait so long to finally, meekly, admit he had defied Trump on January 6? Why did he not provide evidence in the 2nd impeachment, or to the Congressional Committee investigating January 6? No, he waited until he was backed into a corner, I believe around the first Republican Debate....
Ultimately, nothing courageous to see here...
A very fair assessment of the former VP.
Pence is emblematic of what is so very wrong with the Republican Party. He chose the U.S. Constitution over Trump and Republican voters cannot abide it. That should terrify us all.
Over and over and over, starting with his decision to join Trump's campaign, Pence did the wrong thing. He backed every lie Trump told, putting his slimy Evangelical sheen on them. He enabled Trump for 4 years, denying that there was anything wrong with or about it.
But yeah, Jan. 6 he refused to go along because no one he asked gave him a good excuse. Not even Quayle.
Pence and the GOP created the monster that got out of control. Did Pence do the right thing on Jan. 6? Sure, but he deserves at least some of the blame for putting himself in that situation.
Pence could have been a hero if he had testified before the Jan. 6th Committee. He really struggled to go big and tell his story after Trump sided with the crowd to Hang Mike Pence!!