"We have so devalued political discourse and rhetoric in this country that you can literally just string a bunch of buzzwords together and be celebrated for it!"
I think you overgeneralize here -- "We" haven't all "devalued political discourse and rhetoric", rather I think it would be more correct to say Republicans and the Right have "devalued political discourse and rhetoric". To lay the blame on everyone equally is also "devalu[ing] political discourse and rhetoric".
I take your point, but I don’t think the argument you’re making completely squares with reality. There are plenty of people on the left who use buzzwords to score points in a similar way. Is that as bad? That’s debatable, but it is part of the problem, and I don’t think that suggesting that the GOP has not caused this devaluing single-handedly is itself a devaluing of discourse.
I understand and share the seasick frustration with the GOP on this and many other related issues. But our side isn’t an innocent newborn babe when it comes to devaluing discourse.
Please, no “both sides do it” arguments. If you are talking about the use of the word “fascist”, there is at least some argument that fascism is part of the gop philosophy. But mtg’s use of the word “communism” is performative, and without connection to reality, how many like the description of people who support LGBTQ rights as “groomers “.
It ought to be clear that I’m not at all suggesting both sides are equal. I don’t believe they are. But pretending we never do it is just an untenable position. I suspect that if you really do believe that, you’ll work hard to dismiss any examples I might post here. So we should probably just agree to disagree. I was trying to defend Chris against what I thought was an unreasonable criticism, based on tribalism more than reality, but I don’t want to turn his comment section into an ugly spat.
"I DO think both sides do it by the way,. I think it's more prevalent among Republicans these days, however."
More prevalent? You mean that the two are pretty much the same but the right does it slightly more? Please identify some people on the left who are "similar" to Trump. Or MTG. Or Jordan. Or Flynn. Or Johnson. Or Tuberville. I could go on and on (literally), but I think these are sufficient as a sampling.
"There are plenty of people on the left who use buzzwords to score points in a similar way."
"It ought to be clear that I’m not at all suggesting both sides are equal. I don’t believe they are."
No, it was not clear. I see a huge difference in the rhetoric of the right and the rhetoric of the left -- no, what the left does is not "similar" to what the right does. The left is not living an imaginary universe as the right is based on their rhetoric and the veracity of what they say -- the right is. To deny this, in my opinion, "is just an untenable position."
OK, you see equivalence, left and right here. Please list the lies pushed by the left that are equivalent to "there was massive voter fraud in the 2020 election so it was stolen".
MTG represents one of the downsides of the internet. Back in the day of 3 major TV networks and one local paper, her mouth noises with hand gestures would not have become widely known.
My normal response to her nonsense is schadenfreude, but today all I feel is deep sadness. A former president will present himself to be arrested, and one half of the country believes it's a plot and the other half is rejoicing.
Not satisfied by applying "Communist" to anything connected to the Democratic Party, the Defendant-In-Chief and his knuckle-dragging sycophants usually also throw in "fascist."
This is especially perplexing since comminism is a government system based on class while fascism is based on nationalism.
If these ignoramouses understood the terms they would embrace fascism since they are all about Nationalism.
I suspect that if in a rant someone called a MAGAite a homosapien, the person would scream about not being gay.
Reminds me of an old bit that Rick Dees did on his morning radio show in LA back in the 80s: "I'm sorry to tell you ma'am, but your son is a homosapien." Too funny!
Chris--Clearly you are a socialist(18) shill for the deep state(1) who supports the treasonous(3) Trump-hating(6) Jack Smith. I just pulled words from my "Word Salad" bingo card (numbers included!) and made an attack on you that would get 1,000 likes on Twitter from people who don't take politics seriously. (There isn't a Word Salad bingo game, but there should be!)
I was serious about the game! Bingo but based on Trump’s Truth social tweets or MTGs tweet of the day. You download a 4x4 card every morning with the silly buzz words randomized on it and then see if you win!
Another point: the "right to vote" is not mentioned in the 1st Amendment.
It is found in the 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th.
There is a relationship between the right of free speech and the ability to vote, but her statement is factually incorrect and underlines your point that words are no longer used correctly, but rather to activate Pavlovian responses.
Sadly this is how we have devolved since 2015. I do think with the advent of 24/7 news cycles and social media it has exacerbated the problem. However, that is what it is at this point. Trump has made sure that words have no meaning anymore. All of his antics and tirades that he has spewed, should have kept him out of the Oval Office to begin with. Now his followers spew words and no consequences. The MAGA cult eat it up.
Agree. My 87 year old father passed away in January but had many conversations with him as he didn’t grasp all new technology and he’d here things on tv such as Twitter and would need that explained. He said why do we need this stuff? The world worked well before. You know, sometimes he had a point. As much as I love all of the advances and how far we have come, some of it has made things worse, not better. Social media was interesting when it first started, new ways to keep in touch or share things. However, IMO, it’s been exploited and exacerbated so many things.
Words coming from seasoned and serious people like Mike Pence(former vice President of the United States) , Bill Bar(former AG of the United States), Chris Christie (former Gov.), Liz Cheney and overwhelming majority of Ex President Trump's cabinet members. They have all said loud and clear that Donald Trump should never be naira the White House again.. Thèse people's words mean a lot and we all listen to them
What has MTG ever said that makes you think that this is just anything more than plain ol' ignorance? History tells us that the dumbest people are also usually the loudest.
Oh my gosh! I don't have any real comment of value, except - yes!!!! I believe in our government and I take it seriously that I need to be educated on issues and have meaningful discourse with those who also care. But nothing makes sense anymore. Words have no meaning. Up is down. We've been saying this for the last seven years believing it has to end, but it doesn't. I'm starting to pull back from politics because nothing makes sense. Thank you so much for articulating this so clearly and making feel like I'm not the only one. Rant on, Chris!
But, boy do the MAGAites love them their socialist programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Red State governments and residents getting more money back from the federal government than they send in taxes.
Why should we give MTG any attention - there is not any value in anything she says.
In this case, she is simply trying to parrot some of the talking points from her dear leader, Trump and his minions...
“We now have two standards of justice in this country,” Trump said in remarks at the annual Georgia GOP Convention on June 10, 2023. “The Democrat communists want to jail their opponents while they protect the murderers who prowl our cities day and night, and other brazen criminals.” He also called Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis a "...lunatic Marxist..." in the same speech. And she heard Giuliani and Trump's attorney, John Lauro, talk the last two days about the first amendment.
Now, we probably have to forgive MTG just a little, since she was not educated in an Ivy League school, it seems some of these terms are new and/or foreign to her. However, she still wants to get attention, therefore, she just throws these and similar terms out there, and hopes one or two might make sense. Either way, by simply throwing the terms around, however incorrectly, she gets attention and clicks - and isn't that the objective of politics today?
Not to mention the “law and order” rhetoric that apparently means nothing, “family values that’s also BS, “small government” which is out the window, etc etc. It’s all BS.
"We have so devalued political discourse and rhetoric in this country that you can literally just string a bunch of buzzwords together and be celebrated for it!"
I think you overgeneralize here -- "We" haven't all "devalued political discourse and rhetoric", rather I think it would be more correct to say Republicans and the Right have "devalued political discourse and rhetoric". To lay the blame on everyone equally is also "devalu[ing] political discourse and rhetoric".
Fair enough. I think Republicans have been the prime culprit, yes.
I take your point, but I don’t think the argument you’re making completely squares with reality. There are plenty of people on the left who use buzzwords to score points in a similar way. Is that as bad? That’s debatable, but it is part of the problem, and I don’t think that suggesting that the GOP has not caused this devaluing single-handedly is itself a devaluing of discourse.
I understand and share the seasick frustration with the GOP on this and many other related issues. But our side isn’t an innocent newborn babe when it comes to devaluing discourse.
Please, no “both sides do it” arguments. If you are talking about the use of the word “fascist”, there is at least some argument that fascism is part of the gop philosophy. But mtg’s use of the word “communism” is performative, and without connection to reality, how many like the description of people who support LGBTQ rights as “groomers “.
It ought to be clear that I’m not at all suggesting both sides are equal. I don’t believe they are. But pretending we never do it is just an untenable position. I suspect that if you really do believe that, you’ll work hard to dismiss any examples I might post here. So we should probably just agree to disagree. I was trying to defend Chris against what I thought was an unreasonable criticism, based on tribalism more than reality, but I don’t want to turn his comment section into an ugly spat.
Thanks Karl. I DO think both sides do it by the way,. I think it's more prevalent among Republicans these days, however.
"I DO think both sides do it by the way,. I think it's more prevalent among Republicans these days, however."
More prevalent? You mean that the two are pretty much the same but the right does it slightly more? Please identify some people on the left who are "similar" to Trump. Or MTG. Or Jordan. Or Flynn. Or Johnson. Or Tuberville. I could go on and on (literally), but I think these are sufficient as a sampling.
That I agree with. It’s really out of control on that side.
"There are plenty of people on the left who use buzzwords to score points in a similar way."
"It ought to be clear that I’m not at all suggesting both sides are equal. I don’t believe they are."
No, it was not clear. I see a huge difference in the rhetoric of the right and the rhetoric of the left -- no, what the left does is not "similar" to what the right does. The left is not living an imaginary universe as the right is based on their rhetoric and the veracity of what they say -- the right is. To deny this, in my opinion, "is just an untenable position."
Indeed, crystal clear.
OK, you see equivalence, left and right here. Please list the lies pushed by the left that are equivalent to "there was massive voter fraud in the 2020 election so it was stolen".
To everyone who has a problem with what I’ve said here: I was afraid this would happen. I’m not going to defend myself. I know how you feel about it.
MTG represents one of the downsides of the internet. Back in the day of 3 major TV networks and one local paper, her mouth noises with hand gestures would not have become widely known.
My normal response to her nonsense is schadenfreude, but today all I feel is deep sadness. A former president will present himself to be arrested, and one half of the country believes it's a plot and the other half is rejoicing.
Bless you for even trying to make sense out anything that MTG says. I think what she really meant was a "woke communist" attack.
Oversight that she didn't call it "woke" for sure.
Chris,
Not satisfied by applying "Communist" to anything connected to the Democratic Party, the Defendant-In-Chief and his knuckle-dragging sycophants usually also throw in "fascist."
This is especially perplexing since comminism is a government system based on class while fascism is based on nationalism.
If these ignoramouses understood the terms they would embrace fascism since they are all about Nationalism.
I suspect that if in a rant someone called a MAGAite a homosapien, the person would scream about not being gay.
Reminds me of an old bit that Rick Dees did on his morning radio show in LA back in the 80s: "I'm sorry to tell you ma'am, but your son is a homosapien." Too funny!
This is like Trump combining "Marxist" and "fascist" in his rants.
Yes, yes it is.
While actually behaving like a fascist, but hurling the word at "leftists" as though it is an appropriate insult.
Chris--Clearly you are a socialist(18) shill for the deep state(1) who supports the treasonous(3) Trump-hating(6) Jack Smith. I just pulled words from my "Word Salad" bingo card (numbers included!) and made an attack on you that would get 1,000 likes on Twitter from people who don't take politics seriously. (There isn't a Word Salad bingo game, but there should be!)
I loled.
I was serious about the game! Bingo but based on Trump’s Truth social tweets or MTGs tweet of the day. You download a 4x4 card every morning with the silly buzz words randomized on it and then see if you win!
Great idea, but can you ever really "win" in that scenario? ;-) I'm pretty sure we all lose.
There's a fantastic mobile game in this idea. I'd play it. 😁
Another point: the "right to vote" is not mentioned in the 1st Amendment.
It is found in the 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th.
There is a relationship between the right of free speech and the ability to vote, but her statement is factually incorrect and underlines your point that words are no longer used correctly, but rather to activate Pavlovian responses.
"That this sort of lowest common denominator stuff works is depressing." I couldn't agree more!!
Sadly this is how we have devolved since 2015. I do think with the advent of 24/7 news cycles and social media it has exacerbated the problem. However, that is what it is at this point. Trump has made sure that words have no meaning anymore. All of his antics and tirades that he has spewed, should have kept him out of the Oval Office to begin with. Now his followers spew words and no consequences. The MAGA cult eat it up.
Elaine, Social media rewards this sort of stuff, unfortunately. It offers instant gratification and plays to the worst instincts of politicians.
Agree. My 87 year old father passed away in January but had many conversations with him as he didn’t grasp all new technology and he’d here things on tv such as Twitter and would need that explained. He said why do we need this stuff? The world worked well before. You know, sometimes he had a point. As much as I love all of the advances and how far we have come, some of it has made things worse, not better. Social media was interesting when it first started, new ways to keep in touch or share things. However, IMO, it’s been exploited and exacerbated so many things.
Words coming from seasoned and serious people like Mike Pence(former vice President of the United States) , Bill Bar(former AG of the United States), Chris Christie (former Gov.), Liz Cheney and overwhelming majority of Ex President Trump's cabinet members. They have all said loud and clear that Donald Trump should never be naira the White House again.. Thèse people's words mean a lot and we all listen to them
We may, Doc, but the millions of MAGAite Dittoheads only parrot back the words of their Fearful Leader.
What has MTG ever said that makes you think that this is just anything more than plain ol' ignorance? History tells us that the dumbest people are also usually the loudest.
I think she may not know better. As opposed to some strategic use of rhetoric....
Exactly. This is more "strategery" than "strategy".
Oh my gosh! I don't have any real comment of value, except - yes!!!! I believe in our government and I take it seriously that I need to be educated on issues and have meaningful discourse with those who also care. But nothing makes sense anymore. Words have no meaning. Up is down. We've been saying this for the last seven years believing it has to end, but it doesn't. I'm starting to pull back from politics because nothing makes sense. Thank you so much for articulating this so clearly and making feel like I'm not the only one. Rant on, Chris!
Thanks for reading!
She will also call it fascist and socialist, these are all buzz words that Americans know to hate, but have no meaning as used by Empty (MT) Greene.
But, boy do the MAGAites love them their socialist programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Red State governments and residents getting more money back from the federal government than they send in taxes.
Why should we give MTG any attention - there is not any value in anything she says.
In this case, she is simply trying to parrot some of the talking points from her dear leader, Trump and his minions...
“We now have two standards of justice in this country,” Trump said in remarks at the annual Georgia GOP Convention on June 10, 2023. “The Democrat communists want to jail their opponents while they protect the murderers who prowl our cities day and night, and other brazen criminals.” He also called Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis a "...lunatic Marxist..." in the same speech. And she heard Giuliani and Trump's attorney, John Lauro, talk the last two days about the first amendment.
Now, we probably have to forgive MTG just a little, since she was not educated in an Ivy League school, it seems some of these terms are new and/or foreign to her. However, she still wants to get attention, therefore, she just throws these and similar terms out there, and hopes one or two might make sense. Either way, by simply throwing the terms around, however incorrectly, she gets attention and clicks - and isn't that the objective of politics today?
Marjorie Traitor Goon, aka Mrs. Potato Head, has officially taken over the title of Dumbest Congresscritter Ever! from Louie the Gomer.
Not to mention the “law and order” rhetoric that apparently means nothing, “family values that’s also BS, “small government” which is out the window, etc etc. It’s all BS.