I've shared this with the CC Community before, but we surely have new citizens in the community: I grew up in a non-sports family. We weren't anti-sports...sports were simply a non-thing. So, I was a bit of a fish out of water when my own kids wanted to participate in sports. I had to learn how to "watch" each of their sports...to catch the nuances of the plays. My wife is similarly non-sportsy. As a result, we just didn't have that gene that caused us to push our kids. We supported them, went to every game, but they played because either they really enjoyed the game, or enjoyed participating in the same activity as their friends. My sons (my older 2 kids) never particularly excelled in anything, but they had some level of fun...until it wasn't. My daughter started playing basketball in 3rd grade. As a high school student, it was fun to see her on the court. And, I'm not going to lie, it was flattering when the coach told us that my daughter was the best 3-pointer in the state (I was pretty sure I detected smoke wafting out from under my skirt, but he insisted he was being honest). So, after getting buried in parent loans putting her brothers through college, I began to fall victim to the trap of REALLY REALLY hoping a college would want to scholarship her. However, as she graduated high school, she decided that her basketball career had run its course, and we took on another series of parent loans. I'm glad for my kids, in the end, that my wife and I didn't know how to put the pressure on...I assume that my kids are the better for it. They are all well adjusted adults now, and just this morning we got news of a fourth grandchild on the way. I think I would really enjoy the Portuguese way. I like coffee on a cold Fall day.
Aaaww, I hope you enjoy being a grandparent as much as my wife and I do. We LOVE it!! :) And, we're very fortunate that all of our kids (therefore all of our grandkids) live nearby, so we get to see everyone daily (in fact, until they go to school--nearby, too--they come to our house for daycare). We are very close to our grandchildren. Lucky us!
That is awesome. We are 1.5 hours from our son and daughter in law, as is her parents. We are both retired so will have lots of time to take that drive and so looking forward to it.
Chris, it is hard for a parent to not want to help their child reach whatever their goals are, be it professional sports or whatever. Here is the lesson I learned from my son.
When he was 13 or 14 years old, he was a keeper (goalie and) for a select or travelling soccer team, and played golf recreationally with me, as well as with his friends. It was clear he was good at soccer, and very good at golf, regularly beating all of the players on his school’s golf team. However, in Ohio, high school golf and soccer were played in the same season , the Fall (may have changed now - this was in the mid to late ‘90’s). Even though he was a very good keeper, his high school had a classmate who was a better keeper, so it was likely, if he played soccer, his classmate would get most of the playing time. If we had pushed him to play golf, he would have started on the team, been the #1 golfer, and who knows where this might have led. So, before his Sophomore year, we sat down to discuss the likely scenarios. My son never hesitated - he said I am going to play soccer. I only have a couple of more years to be with and play with my friends. Golf is a game for life, however, most of my soccer will be over the next three years. And this is what he did. He is still great friends with quite a few of his soccer teammates, and is a very good golfer. He currently carries a +2.0 index (for those not sure, he usually shoots 2 to 3 strokes below par) from the tips, or the maximum length of the course. He has played in some US Amateur Qualifiers, and is looking to try his hand at the Mid-Ams.
I am truly grateful he (not me) had the foresight to truly know what would be important to him for the rest of his life, and to pursue it. At the time, I would not have made the same decision if it were me. I wish I had been smart enough to know, like he did at the time, that it was the right decision. Nevertheless, I learned a great deal from it - youth sports are completely different for me as a result. All that was important to my son was being with his friends - a lesson for a lifetime.
Excellent points. I am constantly stunned by how many folks truly believe their kid is going to play for a D1 school. TRULY BELIEVE! I don't get it. My son played sports and was reasonably athletic. But no star. He decided sports were just too competitive and no fun by high school, and he just wanted sports to be fun. He was a more academic type and that was enough stress in his life. He attended a very well respected state school that was not a big sports school. Since he only graduated college two years ago, it's still a sore spot that the athletes - even at a lower division school! - had much lower academic standards for admission, got more scholarship money than the kids with high academic achievement, and were actually prioritized over ALL other students (even seniors) for choosing schedules. It's such a statement about our society and its priorities.
As a former volunteer at the first-aid station for a local soccer tournament, let me tell you that even when kids are injured,the parents frequently scream at them and at anyone who dares to insist that their darling star is out of the game. It was dreadful. The invective would stun me. These were hurt children, and if I had said they were good to go,the parents wouldn’t have batted an eyelash at putting them back in the game. As a side note, I used to love to watch the very littlest kids play, the ones who had not yet learned from their parents that this was a blood sport. If one player fell down, kids from both sides would run over to lend a hand, help that child up. It was adorable but short lived.
I could not have said it better myself, and I've been writing about and covering high school sports for nearly 35 years. The biggest problem with youth sports isn't the kids--most of them are great. It's usually the parents who cause the most problems.
Funny story: I coached rec basketball for a few years. They had the coaches sign a behavior pledge, the parents sign one and the kids sign one. I asked the commissioner how much trouble they had in the past with bad behavior. He said lots from the coaches and the parents. None from the kids. So, yeah.
Chris, I so hear you and saw it while my son was growing up. Our philosophy was to try him in any and all things that he was interested in and see what stuck, not all at once. He started at age 4 with soccer, it was more of an activity to be with other boys and have some fun. He liked it enough and had some fun, however, even at that young age the parents were already starting in. He played another season but decided he didn’t like it enough to continue. We had said 1 sport per season, so the spring before kindergarten (he was 5), started T-ball. It was a co-ed team that year and my husband was coach. The kids had a blast. They started to learn the basics, we didn’t use the T at all, started right with coach pitch. The kids all did well and we didn’t have the same vibe with parents as we did with soccer. However, by the time my son hit 2nd grade in baseball, it was a whole different scene. It started and each year it was getting worse. Some kids were in it to have fun, others were already into thinking big league. My son tried basketball, more to be active in the winter months. He finally decided he didn’t like it well enough to continue, baseball was his sport. As I said, each year got more and more competitive, more so with the parents! The parents were buying 3, 4 & 5 bats for the boys, all high end. This was in 4th grade. Ultimately, my son decided he did not want to play for high school. While he was good enough (pitcher), it was so political and the whole vibe just turned him off. The parents at back to school night in 9th grade were more concerned about getting their kids into a D1 school, than the academics. Our good friends son was recruited for Lacrosse which was wonderful. However, his grades were not where they should have been to get into the school but got in due to lacrosse. I know that happens but is sports more important than the education? I just don’t know.
However, we also saw this in Boy Scouts. My son started in Tiger cubs and enjoyed it, he continued on for 5 or 6 years. He loved the camaraderie, the camping (weekends, week long day camp, week long sleep away), the archery & target shooting, etc.. However, as he got older it turned to going down the road of an Eagle Scout. My son, as well as a couple of his friends, were not interested in being an Eagle Scout (we tried to persuade him....good for college!) but no go. They decided they would rather play baseball and that tapped into the time needed for scouts. However, one of our friends had 3 boys, close in age, the older one was pushed into going for Eagle Scout. As he was going through everything, mom dragged the other 2 boys with the oldest, even though they weren’t old enough to be doing this. All 3 were Eagle Scouts but hated it all, mom pushed them. What happened? The oldest was struggling all through high school with anxiety and wound up going to a friends house to stay awhile.
I guess my point is, sometimes who are these kids doing this for? Themselves or the parents? Many times that line is blurred.
Is a college education free in Portugal, and if so, does the difference begin with parents in Portugal not having the stress of how to pay for a college education for their kids thus causing this scholarship competition that seems to be at the root?
my son is fortunate enough to be on a pretty good travel soccer team, as he's a pretty good player.
i believe the pay-to-play structure in the u.s. leads to exactly the behavior you outlined. i love coaching youth soccer and have been an assistant coach for years. i'm not sure i'm built for it though when we go against other coaches who passive-aggressively work the 15-yr old referees and a.r.'s looking for a call that will swing the game. speaking of which my older son is 15 and is a certified referee. at some point i'm going to have to, but i can't bring myself to not be present when he referees a youth soccer game. i know he'll make a mistake. not because he's 15 - but because everyone makes mistakes.... and then a parent or coach will jump all over him.
Wow, my ears are ringing a bit. This article hits close. Went through these cycles with my son and daughter. Especially my daughter and her softball. She played on a high level club team. I'll never forget the day she timidly approached and asked if I'd be upset if she didn't play in college. I immediately told her that this was entirely her call and I'd support her always. But, I was mortified to think that she doing all the work because she thought it was what I wanted.
Today she's given us two soccer playing grandkids and we enjoy seeing the fun they're having. But, the 8 year old is already on a club team and the 6 year old just tried out this week. 🤦😂
Yes to all of this and to include dance, as well, it’s even crazier!! My question is what if your kid is driving the ambition? Do we just have to tell them, sorry, you’re probably not gonna make it? It’s tough
My English husband says kids, especially soccer kids, are identified early. The clubs have camps and train the kids. He could enjoy playing without the pressure. It's so different in Europe when it comes to sports. Universities have no teams, there is very little fundraising too. Our sports are all focused on cash and endorsements.
Great piece, Chris! Unfortunately, it's not just sports. You see it in the arts and academics too. When my daughter was in 8th grade, I went to a parent's meeting about making sure that your child was on track for high school graduation (it was a college prep school). There was a mother there whose main concern was how many AP classes her kid should take to make sure that he ended up as valedictorian (I don't think he did).
We seem to have lost interest in letting our kids be kids.
I completely agree. And I think part of it is losing sight of what kids learn from each other, rather than from adults. It's a much more age appropriate way to learn social skills, navigating social politics, the rewards of self discipline and commitment, and prioritizing your goals!
It is so much fun watching our 5 year old grandson play soccer at our local activity center. He isn't very athletic but the joy he has running up and down the field is priceless. I know that as he gets a bit older the competition of bigger, stronger and more athletically gifted children will probably shove him to the sidelines. But right now the parents are cheering the goals made by both teams and the kids all feel like superstars. It's wonderful!
I've shared this with the CC Community before, but we surely have new citizens in the community: I grew up in a non-sports family. We weren't anti-sports...sports were simply a non-thing. So, I was a bit of a fish out of water when my own kids wanted to participate in sports. I had to learn how to "watch" each of their sports...to catch the nuances of the plays. My wife is similarly non-sportsy. As a result, we just didn't have that gene that caused us to push our kids. We supported them, went to every game, but they played because either they really enjoyed the game, or enjoyed participating in the same activity as their friends. My sons (my older 2 kids) never particularly excelled in anything, but they had some level of fun...until it wasn't. My daughter started playing basketball in 3rd grade. As a high school student, it was fun to see her on the court. And, I'm not going to lie, it was flattering when the coach told us that my daughter was the best 3-pointer in the state (I was pretty sure I detected smoke wafting out from under my skirt, but he insisted he was being honest). So, after getting buried in parent loans putting her brothers through college, I began to fall victim to the trap of REALLY REALLY hoping a college would want to scholarship her. However, as she graduated high school, she decided that her basketball career had run its course, and we took on another series of parent loans. I'm glad for my kids, in the end, that my wife and I didn't know how to put the pressure on...I assume that my kids are the better for it. They are all well adjusted adults now, and just this morning we got news of a fourth grandchild on the way. I think I would really enjoy the Portuguese way. I like coffee on a cold Fall day.
Portugal is AMAZING, Andy. Strong recommend! And thanks for sharing your experiences.
Congrats on the 4th grandchild coming! Our first grandchild (boy!) is due 5/29. We are super excited.
Aaaww, I hope you enjoy being a grandparent as much as my wife and I do. We LOVE it!! :) And, we're very fortunate that all of our kids (therefore all of our grandkids) live nearby, so we get to see everyone daily (in fact, until they go to school--nearby, too--they come to our house for daycare). We are very close to our grandchildren. Lucky us!
That is awesome. We are 1.5 hours from our son and daughter in law, as is her parents. We are both retired so will have lots of time to take that drive and so looking forward to it.
Maybe there should be a mandatory course, viz, How Not To Live Vicariously Through Your Child,for parents whose kids play sports !
Seriously. People need it!
Chris, it is hard for a parent to not want to help their child reach whatever their goals are, be it professional sports or whatever. Here is the lesson I learned from my son.
When he was 13 or 14 years old, he was a keeper (goalie and) for a select or travelling soccer team, and played golf recreationally with me, as well as with his friends. It was clear he was good at soccer, and very good at golf, regularly beating all of the players on his school’s golf team. However, in Ohio, high school golf and soccer were played in the same season , the Fall (may have changed now - this was in the mid to late ‘90’s). Even though he was a very good keeper, his high school had a classmate who was a better keeper, so it was likely, if he played soccer, his classmate would get most of the playing time. If we had pushed him to play golf, he would have started on the team, been the #1 golfer, and who knows where this might have led. So, before his Sophomore year, we sat down to discuss the likely scenarios. My son never hesitated - he said I am going to play soccer. I only have a couple of more years to be with and play with my friends. Golf is a game for life, however, most of my soccer will be over the next three years. And this is what he did. He is still great friends with quite a few of his soccer teammates, and is a very good golfer. He currently carries a +2.0 index (for those not sure, he usually shoots 2 to 3 strokes below par) from the tips, or the maximum length of the course. He has played in some US Amateur Qualifiers, and is looking to try his hand at the Mid-Ams.
I am truly grateful he (not me) had the foresight to truly know what would be important to him for the rest of his life, and to pursue it. At the time, I would not have made the same decision if it were me. I wish I had been smart enough to know, like he did at the time, that it was the right decision. Nevertheless, I learned a great deal from it - youth sports are completely different for me as a result. All that was important to my son was being with his friends - a lesson for a lifetime.
Excellent points. I am constantly stunned by how many folks truly believe their kid is going to play for a D1 school. TRULY BELIEVE! I don't get it. My son played sports and was reasonably athletic. But no star. He decided sports were just too competitive and no fun by high school, and he just wanted sports to be fun. He was a more academic type and that was enough stress in his life. He attended a very well respected state school that was not a big sports school. Since he only graduated college two years ago, it's still a sore spot that the athletes - even at a lower division school! - had much lower academic standards for admission, got more scholarship money than the kids with high academic achievement, and were actually prioritized over ALL other students (even seniors) for choosing schedules. It's such a statement about our society and its priorities.
As a former volunteer at the first-aid station for a local soccer tournament, let me tell you that even when kids are injured,the parents frequently scream at them and at anyone who dares to insist that their darling star is out of the game. It was dreadful. The invective would stun me. These were hurt children, and if I had said they were good to go,the parents wouldn’t have batted an eyelash at putting them back in the game. As a side note, I used to love to watch the very littlest kids play, the ones who had not yet learned from their parents that this was a blood sport. If one player fell down, kids from both sides would run over to lend a hand, help that child up. It was adorable but short lived.
I could not have said it better myself, and I've been writing about and covering high school sports for nearly 35 years. The biggest problem with youth sports isn't the kids--most of them are great. It's usually the parents who cause the most problems.
Funny story: I coached rec basketball for a few years. They had the coaches sign a behavior pledge, the parents sign one and the kids sign one. I asked the commissioner how much trouble they had in the past with bad behavior. He said lots from the coaches and the parents. None from the kids. So, yeah.
Chris, I so hear you and saw it while my son was growing up. Our philosophy was to try him in any and all things that he was interested in and see what stuck, not all at once. He started at age 4 with soccer, it was more of an activity to be with other boys and have some fun. He liked it enough and had some fun, however, even at that young age the parents were already starting in. He played another season but decided he didn’t like it enough to continue. We had said 1 sport per season, so the spring before kindergarten (he was 5), started T-ball. It was a co-ed team that year and my husband was coach. The kids had a blast. They started to learn the basics, we didn’t use the T at all, started right with coach pitch. The kids all did well and we didn’t have the same vibe with parents as we did with soccer. However, by the time my son hit 2nd grade in baseball, it was a whole different scene. It started and each year it was getting worse. Some kids were in it to have fun, others were already into thinking big league. My son tried basketball, more to be active in the winter months. He finally decided he didn’t like it well enough to continue, baseball was his sport. As I said, each year got more and more competitive, more so with the parents! The parents were buying 3, 4 & 5 bats for the boys, all high end. This was in 4th grade. Ultimately, my son decided he did not want to play for high school. While he was good enough (pitcher), it was so political and the whole vibe just turned him off. The parents at back to school night in 9th grade were more concerned about getting their kids into a D1 school, than the academics. Our good friends son was recruited for Lacrosse which was wonderful. However, his grades were not where they should have been to get into the school but got in due to lacrosse. I know that happens but is sports more important than the education? I just don’t know.
However, we also saw this in Boy Scouts. My son started in Tiger cubs and enjoyed it, he continued on for 5 or 6 years. He loved the camaraderie, the camping (weekends, week long day camp, week long sleep away), the archery & target shooting, etc.. However, as he got older it turned to going down the road of an Eagle Scout. My son, as well as a couple of his friends, were not interested in being an Eagle Scout (we tried to persuade him....good for college!) but no go. They decided they would rather play baseball and that tapped into the time needed for scouts. However, one of our friends had 3 boys, close in age, the older one was pushed into going for Eagle Scout. As he was going through everything, mom dragged the other 2 boys with the oldest, even though they weren’t old enough to be doing this. All 3 were Eagle Scouts but hated it all, mom pushed them. What happened? The oldest was struggling all through high school with anxiety and wound up going to a friends house to stay awhile.
I guess my point is, sometimes who are these kids doing this for? Themselves or the parents? Many times that line is blurred.
Is a college education free in Portugal, and if so, does the difference begin with parents in Portugal not having the stress of how to pay for a college education for their kids thus causing this scholarship competition that seems to be at the root?
my son is fortunate enough to be on a pretty good travel soccer team, as he's a pretty good player.
i believe the pay-to-play structure in the u.s. leads to exactly the behavior you outlined. i love coaching youth soccer and have been an assistant coach for years. i'm not sure i'm built for it though when we go against other coaches who passive-aggressively work the 15-yr old referees and a.r.'s looking for a call that will swing the game. speaking of which my older son is 15 and is a certified referee. at some point i'm going to have to, but i can't bring myself to not be present when he referees a youth soccer game. i know he'll make a mistake. not because he's 15 - but because everyone makes mistakes.... and then a parent or coach will jump all over him.
Wow, my ears are ringing a bit. This article hits close. Went through these cycles with my son and daughter. Especially my daughter and her softball. She played on a high level club team. I'll never forget the day she timidly approached and asked if I'd be upset if she didn't play in college. I immediately told her that this was entirely her call and I'd support her always. But, I was mortified to think that she doing all the work because she thought it was what I wanted.
Today she's given us two soccer playing grandkids and we enjoy seeing the fun they're having. But, the 8 year old is already on a club team and the 6 year old just tried out this week. 🤦😂
Yes!!
Yes to all of this and to include dance, as well, it’s even crazier!! My question is what if your kid is driving the ambition? Do we just have to tell them, sorry, you’re probably not gonna make it? It’s tough
Right. No one wants to be a dream crusher. I think as long as you aren't the prime pusher, it's actually ok. They will figure it out.
My English husband says kids, especially soccer kids, are identified early. The clubs have camps and train the kids. He could enjoy playing without the pressure. It's so different in Europe when it comes to sports. Universities have no teams, there is very little fundraising too. Our sports are all focused on cash and endorsements.
SO different. And I would say better.
Great piece, Chris! Unfortunately, it's not just sports. You see it in the arts and academics too. When my daughter was in 8th grade, I went to a parent's meeting about making sure that your child was on track for high school graduation (it was a college prep school). There was a mother there whose main concern was how many AP classes her kid should take to make sure that he ended up as valedictorian (I don't think he did).
We seem to have lost interest in letting our kids be kids.
We really have. Youth is the time to PLAY. To have FUN. Not to spend all your time being critiqued by your parents about a play you didn't make.
I completely agree. And I think part of it is losing sight of what kids learn from each other, rather than from adults. It's a much more age appropriate way to learn social skills, navigating social politics, the rewards of self discipline and commitment, and prioritizing your goals!
You are spot on Chris!
Thanks, Fred!
It is so much fun watching our 5 year old grandson play soccer at our local activity center. He isn't very athletic but the joy he has running up and down the field is priceless. I know that as he gets a bit older the competition of bigger, stronger and more athletically gifted children will probably shove him to the sidelines. But right now the parents are cheering the goals made by both teams and the kids all feel like superstars. It's wonderful!