Oh, this is exactly it. Politics has become professional wrestling, and Trump is Vince McMahon’s greatest student. He has the heel heat, the cheap pops, and the ability to turn every moment into a spectacle, whether it’s trash-talking his enemies, staging a “dramatic” feud, or convincing his audience that the entire world is out to get him. Just like in wrestling, kayfabe is king.
Trump doesn’t need to be real. He just needs his fans to believe in the character. And they do. They eat up the over-the-top villainy, the betrayals, and the revenge arcs. They’re not looking for governance. They’re looking for entertainment. And he delivers it like he’s in the squared circle every night, cutting promos about “Sleepy Joe” while his hype men chant “Lock her up!” from the cheap seats.
Trump is a heel. He thrives on boos as much as cheers. If liberals hate him, it only makes his fans love him more. That’s why every scandal makes him stronger. That’s why he can lose court cases, incite insurrections, and still be “over” with the crowd. They’re in on the bit. They know he’s full of it. They don’t care.
That’s the part that drives traditional political analysts insane. They’re trying to apply 20th-century logic to a post-kayfabe world where elections aren’t about policy. They’re about vibes. It’s not about “winning the argument.” It’s about owning the libs. It’s about popping the crowd. As long as Trump can keep the act going, they’ll keep showing up for the next pay-per-view.
The question is, how do you beat a heel when the audience wants the villain to win?
I told myself this time around I would not give him the audience he craves. I feel like it's hard to turn a blind eye to the theatrics, especially when people are losing their jobs or support, but if we can cut off the oxygen that's fanning the flame, it'll eventually die out.
That fucker is never passing. They'll have an AI drone bot ready to roll out, complete with the diaper odor.
America is gone. When I read pious so called Christian folks wishing death and pain to babies and kids I know we have crossed over. When I see them salivating over Russian aggression and supporting those who bashed in cops heads for real but bowing down to a poor black kid who has cancer but is a honorary cop, we're done. When we call the leader of our closest neighbor Governor as a sign of submission, we're done.
I hear you. And I won’t feed you some empty, hopeful platitudes about “institutions holding” or “good people stepping up.” That’s not where we are anymore. The mask is off, the rot is fully visible, and they like it that way. They aren’t even pretending to hide their disdain for democracy, their hunger for violence, or their full embrace of authoritarian power.
What bothers me the most is when I hear from my country club Republican buddies that even though personally they think he is a bore, everything he does isn't all bad. So the bottom line is that no matter what he says or does the GOP is going to stay with him. These are people that 10 years ago would have cringed at the thought of anybody beating up a cop and being celebrated.
Yeah, the polite fiction is over. The so-called “adults in the room” are either complicit or too cowardly to stop it. They see the hate, the violence, the blatant authoritarianism, and they shrug because their portfolios are doing fine. It’s not “all bad,” they say as if normalizing open fascism is just a quirky political phase.
Meanwhile, the true believers aren’t even pretending anymore. They want this. The cruelty, the submission to power, the giddy fantasies of erasing entire groups of people, it’s not a side effect; it’s the point. And the ones who aren’t fully radicalized? They’ll still vote for it. Every. Damn. Time.
It’s not about winning debates or fact-checking anymore. It’s about whether people are willing to fight, really fight, for democracy because this is the last call before the door slams shut.
The best part is their portfolios aren't doing well and they blame Biden. This is the great con job in American history and you can lay it all on the GOP. We had nothing to do with this and tried to warn everyone. But nope, cheap eggs.
I just wish more of them would be honest and call Kamala the N-word and tell us how they would never vote for a black woman if she was Jesus, because that is how they actually feel. Chris is will give us all the crap about how the Dems were disconnected from the bulk of the American people, but we know the real reason.
This is pretty disappointing. Cillizza is one of the worst political journalists ever. Nonsense take after nonsense take completely covering politics as horse race and ignoring the reprecussions and morality of what he covers. He is the poster boy for vacant nonsense.
This is not an ad hominem attack. My opinion of Cillizza isn't knee jerk or based on one event. It's from years of reading his work in the Post and observing him on CNN. If you think the commenting standard should be that I'm required to footnote the exact moments when my opinion was formed and provide the specific columns and CNN appearances, then you don't understand the nature of comments. You seem to want a perch where you can summarily reject every comment you disagree with. Good for you.
I think Chris Cillizza is very courageous. He has a gay drag queen voice but is a heterosexual husband and father. This takes balls. I like him. I also can't get enough of BAD JVL. (There is a good and bad JVL).
Fascinating conversation - hell of a venn diagram of my substack subscriptions! I’ve got “Ring Master: Vince McMahon and the Unmaking of America” on my Kindle to-read list based on the recommendation that understanding wrestling allows you to understand modern politics. Having run into Linda McMahon in Connecticut politics back during her first Senate race in 2010 I feel as though I got a preview of all this. The past 10 years have been quite the “face off” moment for the country — there’s always been an undercurrent of anti-immigrant xenophobia (hello my Irish Catholic ancestors!) and isolationism, but it’s never before in my lifetime has it been ascendent. I’m at a loss for what to do from here as a fan of free markets and a muscular role of the US in the world protecting democracy — not for nothing was I a Weekly Standard subscriber back during the GWB years. Trying to find a way to have an impact; while maintaining my sanity.
Fun fact: I lived 30 years next to the town JVL is from. It’s the town we raised our son in. Left 3 years ago. Don’t worry, not stalking him. Lol. He commented to me one day.
America is returning to the world disengagement navel-gazing of the 1930s. The big difference is that there is no FDR commanding the stage, pushing back from the bully pulpit. Today, what's worst, is that the forces of darkness, led by Trump, are defining the debate.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Santayana 1905
Chris, I have wondered if the SEC (not that they would) should investigate Trump and Mar-a-Lago crowd for insider trading. I wondered about this in his first term, and now for sure in the second term. It would work like this — Trump on the golf course with his rich buds gets the idea (hhhmmm probably seeded by the friends) that he’ll announce (tweet) say tariffs on steel and aluminum. Knowing this, the golf buddies invest accordingly. All these ons and offs with the tariffs works the same way… know in advance the tariffs are going on, know when they are coming off, or industries where exceptions are being made — invest accordingly. I would think that SEC could simply get the guest list from Mar-a-Lago, review their trades (and all family members of course as the golf buddies probably are not stupid enough to invest in their name), and put it all together. It’s not chaos if others know in advance and profit from it. It is illegal.
There is no doubt that insider trading is happening through Mar-a-Lago. No doubt. I also have no doubt that the SEC will not investigate Trump’s associates for insider trading unless Trump demands it.
The SEC just halted its fraud investigation of Justin Sun after he purchased millions of Trump tokens. The corruption is out in the open.
I loved it! Thanks. I thought the discussion around Trump taking complex problems and trying to give a simple answer was good. I think that is a big part of his success. Leaders that can articulate a simple answer (even if not perfect) are followed. Example…I am going to end the war in Ukraine. Sounds simple, but incredibly complex. People don’t care how the sausage is made…they just like that it tastes good. Secondly, while I loved the overall tone, it did feel a little like 2 East Coast elites looking down on a lot of America.
America has not changed fundamentally! Not by wwII, the Cold War, the Korean War of longevity, not by the Iraq War, not by 911 Alkaida, not by other factions … through all this we still have so much more in common together in solidarity than in any other way! Our reliable government despite political party differences … that is until the horrors of 2016-2020 and again sadly in 2024.
However the ides of Trump will never change the facts /lies of Donald Jonh FELON34+Trump and his cohort President will ever change the cohesive solidarity of those who have respect and have everlasting in common than the disrespectful smaller individuals, groups, including the rich, the oligarchy could ever appreciate America’s beloved UNITED STATES 🇺🇸 CONSTITUTION, the BILL OF ROGHTS, LAW & ORDER and so much more Bequeathed by our founding fathers of wisdom for close to our 250 years mark.
Trump will be defeated in 2026. He is a man to disparage rightfully. So it will be rightfully! BDJT FELON 34+ has lived a rich boy from his teen years as a young man who TAKES WHAT, if, & when HE WANTS just like he has his whole life including his entire life produced a great deal of criminal offenses at will and whim. Simply Google them all. DJT FELON34+ has always complained that he has always been treated “unfairly” as he continues the same complaints today.
He to this day has a love affair with Putin of Russia, Xi of China, Kim Jung Un of North Korea, and Victor Orbon. Trump the FELON34+ loves these men because he thinks they are “STRONG”. He has a sick deep desire to TAKE the US CONSTITUTION and “RIP IT UP” and HOLD ONTO ALL POWER OVER HIS AMERICA and Forget about ever having to VOTE 🗳️ IN AMERICA AGAIN! He Wants and actually does believe HE WILL HAVE HIS OWN FAMILY MONARCHY HERE IN THE United States of America 🇺🇸. He had previously on January 6, 2021 arranged a COUP TO STOP THE ELECTION COUNT FINAL VERIFICATION OF THE 2020 election by the VP who was as his exclusive DUTY TO HEAD THE PROCESS …the issue … Th FELON’S VP HAD DECLINED TRUMP’S PLAN FOR HIM TO NOT VERIFI THE ELECTION OF 2020 that Trump had LOST that election When … Trump’s planned COUP BEGAN TAKING PLACE AT A TIME HAD OUTWARDLY “LIED to the American VOTERS that He did Win that 2020 ELECTION. Trump’s the FELON34+, the Trump personal Army coordinating “PROUD BOYS” and over 2,000 others rampaged the US CAPITAL AFTER TRUMP SPOKE TO THEM “ that if you don’t fight you are not going to have a COUNTRY ANYMORE THE VERY INFLUENTIAL WORDS CAME TO FRUITION … Moments later about a block away the Trump MON RAMPAGED THE CAPITAL PROPERTY armed and militant overwhelmingly breaking in looking for their targets to “Hang & Kill” as the Capitol POLICE WERE OVER-RUN BY THE Trump arranged MOB INJURED & Killed by the onslaught for the purpose of DJT FELON34+ whim to remain in office stealing the 2020 RIGHTFUL ELECTION FROM THE TRUE AND REAL WIN FROM Joseph R Biden DJT FELON34+ became a very sore loser who became ever more paranoid dangerous, vengeful, “claiming I will be your RETRIBUTION”.
You can tell DJT FELON34+ must RIGG his way to the win so here he is yet again ! He must have his way. DESPITE HIS ATTEMPTS AT THINKING NOW THAT HE HAS THREE SONS AND ONE DAUGHTER HE WILL Finagle his way to his monarchy. None of which signifies any other way, but to rig this to happen.
Our American fundamentals will not allow for this to happen, because crime doesn’t pay.
JVL is my hands-down favorite political writer. He uses real language to communicate otherwise complicated ideas in a way that won’t depress you without making you crack a smirk at least once. Usually more than once. There’s often a laugh in there too! Sometimes you have to look for it, but it’s there. Gramercy and huzza, etc.
Learning what the word kayfabe means explains so much about reality now. I can’t remember who first pointed it out so can’t give credit but it was in the first term of the WWE presidency. It really helped me wrap my mind around why we are where we are.
Oh, this is exactly it. Politics has become professional wrestling, and Trump is Vince McMahon’s greatest student. He has the heel heat, the cheap pops, and the ability to turn every moment into a spectacle, whether it’s trash-talking his enemies, staging a “dramatic” feud, or convincing his audience that the entire world is out to get him. Just like in wrestling, kayfabe is king.
Trump doesn’t need to be real. He just needs his fans to believe in the character. And they do. They eat up the over-the-top villainy, the betrayals, and the revenge arcs. They’re not looking for governance. They’re looking for entertainment. And he delivers it like he’s in the squared circle every night, cutting promos about “Sleepy Joe” while his hype men chant “Lock her up!” from the cheap seats.
Trump is a heel. He thrives on boos as much as cheers. If liberals hate him, it only makes his fans love him more. That’s why every scandal makes him stronger. That’s why he can lose court cases, incite insurrections, and still be “over” with the crowd. They’re in on the bit. They know he’s full of it. They don’t care.
That’s the part that drives traditional political analysts insane. They’re trying to apply 20th-century logic to a post-kayfabe world where elections aren’t about policy. They’re about vibes. It’s not about “winning the argument.” It’s about owning the libs. It’s about popping the crowd. As long as Trump can keep the act going, they’ll keep showing up for the next pay-per-view.
The question is, how do you beat a heel when the audience wants the villain to win?
I told myself this time around I would not give him the audience he craves. I feel like it's hard to turn a blind eye to the theatrics, especially when people are losing their jobs or support, but if we can cut off the oxygen that's fanning the flame, it'll eventually die out.
Sign the petition to: Impeach!!!!
Chris is right that JVL is the best political writer at the moment. JVL is terrific and is mostly right.
That fucker is never passing. They'll have an AI drone bot ready to roll out, complete with the diaper odor.
America is gone. When I read pious so called Christian folks wishing death and pain to babies and kids I know we have crossed over. When I see them salivating over Russian aggression and supporting those who bashed in cops heads for real but bowing down to a poor black kid who has cancer but is a honorary cop, we're done. When we call the leader of our closest neighbor Governor as a sign of submission, we're done.
Stick a fork in us.
I hear you. And I won’t feed you some empty, hopeful platitudes about “institutions holding” or “good people stepping up.” That’s not where we are anymore. The mask is off, the rot is fully visible, and they like it that way. They aren’t even pretending to hide their disdain for democracy, their hunger for violence, or their full embrace of authoritarian power.
What bothers me the most is when I hear from my country club Republican buddies that even though personally they think he is a bore, everything he does isn't all bad. So the bottom line is that no matter what he says or does the GOP is going to stay with him. These are people that 10 years ago would have cringed at the thought of anybody beating up a cop and being celebrated.
Yeah, the polite fiction is over. The so-called “adults in the room” are either complicit or too cowardly to stop it. They see the hate, the violence, the blatant authoritarianism, and they shrug because their portfolios are doing fine. It’s not “all bad,” they say as if normalizing open fascism is just a quirky political phase.
Meanwhile, the true believers aren’t even pretending anymore. They want this. The cruelty, the submission to power, the giddy fantasies of erasing entire groups of people, it’s not a side effect; it’s the point. And the ones who aren’t fully radicalized? They’ll still vote for it. Every. Damn. Time.
It’s not about winning debates or fact-checking anymore. It’s about whether people are willing to fight, really fight, for democracy because this is the last call before the door slams shut.
The best part is their portfolios aren't doing well and they blame Biden. This is the great con job in American history and you can lay it all on the GOP. We had nothing to do with this and tried to warn everyone. But nope, cheap eggs.
I just wish more of them would be honest and call Kamala the N-word and tell us how they would never vote for a black woman if she was Jesus, because that is how they actually feel. Chris is will give us all the crap about how the Dems were disconnected from the bulk of the American people, but we know the real reason.
Let's face it: In 2025, Jesus would make it through Border Control.
This is pretty disappointing. Cillizza is one of the worst political journalists ever. Nonsense take after nonsense take completely covering politics as horse race and ignoring the reprecussions and morality of what he covers. He is the poster boy for vacant nonsense.
HA! What do you really think of me!
I said what I said.
I completely support what you said. You are absolutely right.
Wait — aren’t you paying to be able to comment here?
Yes
I can respect that.
Guy is a dirt eater…ignore his jealousy.
From the man with a hair plug toupee.
Keep on with the ad hominem attacks. The Left is winning real good with that strategy.
This is not an ad hominem attack. My opinion of Cillizza isn't knee jerk or based on one event. It's from years of reading his work in the Post and observing him on CNN. If you think the commenting standard should be that I'm required to footnote the exact moments when my opinion was formed and provide the specific columns and CNN appearances, then you don't understand the nature of comments. You seem to want a perch where you can summarily reject every comment you disagree with. Good for you.
I think Chris Cillizza is very courageous. He has a gay drag queen voice but is a heterosexual husband and father. This takes balls. I like him. I also can't get enough of BAD JVL. (There is a good and bad JVL).
Fascinating conversation - hell of a venn diagram of my substack subscriptions! I’ve got “Ring Master: Vince McMahon and the Unmaking of America” on my Kindle to-read list based on the recommendation that understanding wrestling allows you to understand modern politics. Having run into Linda McMahon in Connecticut politics back during her first Senate race in 2010 I feel as though I got a preview of all this. The past 10 years have been quite the “face off” moment for the country — there’s always been an undercurrent of anti-immigrant xenophobia (hello my Irish Catholic ancestors!) and isolationism, but it’s never before in my lifetime has it been ascendent. I’m at a loss for what to do from here as a fan of free markets and a muscular role of the US in the world protecting democracy — not for nothing was I a Weekly Standard subscriber back during the GWB years. Trying to find a way to have an impact; while maintaining my sanity.
Love JVL. Thanks for having him on, Chris.
He;s the best!
Fun fact: I lived 30 years next to the town JVL is from. It’s the town we raised our son in. Left 3 years ago. Don’t worry, not stalking him. Lol. He commented to me one day.
Never forget JVL’s Law: Any person or institution not explicitly anti-Trump will become a tool for authoritarianism eventually.
America is returning to the world disengagement navel-gazing of the 1930s. The big difference is that there is no FDR commanding the stage, pushing back from the bully pulpit. Today, what's worst, is that the forces of darkness, led by Trump, are defining the debate.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Santayana 1905
Chris, I have wondered if the SEC (not that they would) should investigate Trump and Mar-a-Lago crowd for insider trading. I wondered about this in his first term, and now for sure in the second term. It would work like this — Trump on the golf course with his rich buds gets the idea (hhhmmm probably seeded by the friends) that he’ll announce (tweet) say tariffs on steel and aluminum. Knowing this, the golf buddies invest accordingly. All these ons and offs with the tariffs works the same way… know in advance the tariffs are going on, know when they are coming off, or industries where exceptions are being made — invest accordingly. I would think that SEC could simply get the guest list from Mar-a-Lago, review their trades (and all family members of course as the golf buddies probably are not stupid enough to invest in their name), and put it all together. It’s not chaos if others know in advance and profit from it. It is illegal.
There is no doubt that insider trading is happening through Mar-a-Lago. No doubt. I also have no doubt that the SEC will not investigate Trump’s associates for insider trading unless Trump demands it.
The SEC just halted its fraud investigation of Justin Sun after he purchased millions of Trump tokens. The corruption is out in the open.
JVL is terrific and you two are a good combination.
THANKS!
I loved it! Thanks. I thought the discussion around Trump taking complex problems and trying to give a simple answer was good. I think that is a big part of his success. Leaders that can articulate a simple answer (even if not perfect) are followed. Example…I am going to end the war in Ukraine. Sounds simple, but incredibly complex. People don’t care how the sausage is made…they just like that it tastes good. Secondly, while I loved the overall tone, it did feel a little like 2 East Coast elites looking down on a lot of America.
America has not changed fundamentally! Not by wwII, the Cold War, the Korean War of longevity, not by the Iraq War, not by 911 Alkaida, not by other factions … through all this we still have so much more in common together in solidarity than in any other way! Our reliable government despite political party differences … that is until the horrors of 2016-2020 and again sadly in 2024.
However the ides of Trump will never change the facts /lies of Donald Jonh FELON34+Trump and his cohort President will ever change the cohesive solidarity of those who have respect and have everlasting in common than the disrespectful smaller individuals, groups, including the rich, the oligarchy could ever appreciate America’s beloved UNITED STATES 🇺🇸 CONSTITUTION, the BILL OF ROGHTS, LAW & ORDER and so much more Bequeathed by our founding fathers of wisdom for close to our 250 years mark.
Trump will be defeated in 2026. He is a man to disparage rightfully. So it will be rightfully! BDJT FELON 34+ has lived a rich boy from his teen years as a young man who TAKES WHAT, if, & when HE WANTS just like he has his whole life including his entire life produced a great deal of criminal offenses at will and whim. Simply Google them all. DJT FELON34+ has always complained that he has always been treated “unfairly” as he continues the same complaints today.
He to this day has a love affair with Putin of Russia, Xi of China, Kim Jung Un of North Korea, and Victor Orbon. Trump the FELON34+ loves these men because he thinks they are “STRONG”. He has a sick deep desire to TAKE the US CONSTITUTION and “RIP IT UP” and HOLD ONTO ALL POWER OVER HIS AMERICA and Forget about ever having to VOTE 🗳️ IN AMERICA AGAIN! He Wants and actually does believe HE WILL HAVE HIS OWN FAMILY MONARCHY HERE IN THE United States of America 🇺🇸. He had previously on January 6, 2021 arranged a COUP TO STOP THE ELECTION COUNT FINAL VERIFICATION OF THE 2020 election by the VP who was as his exclusive DUTY TO HEAD THE PROCESS …the issue … Th FELON’S VP HAD DECLINED TRUMP’S PLAN FOR HIM TO NOT VERIFI THE ELECTION OF 2020 that Trump had LOST that election When … Trump’s planned COUP BEGAN TAKING PLACE AT A TIME HAD OUTWARDLY “LIED to the American VOTERS that He did Win that 2020 ELECTION. Trump’s the FELON34+, the Trump personal Army coordinating “PROUD BOYS” and over 2,000 others rampaged the US CAPITAL AFTER TRUMP SPOKE TO THEM “ that if you don’t fight you are not going to have a COUNTRY ANYMORE THE VERY INFLUENTIAL WORDS CAME TO FRUITION … Moments later about a block away the Trump MON RAMPAGED THE CAPITAL PROPERTY armed and militant overwhelmingly breaking in looking for their targets to “Hang & Kill” as the Capitol POLICE WERE OVER-RUN BY THE Trump arranged MOB INJURED & Killed by the onslaught for the purpose of DJT FELON34+ whim to remain in office stealing the 2020 RIGHTFUL ELECTION FROM THE TRUE AND REAL WIN FROM Joseph R Biden DJT FELON34+ became a very sore loser who became ever more paranoid dangerous, vengeful, “claiming I will be your RETRIBUTION”.
You can tell DJT FELON34+ must RIGG his way to the win so here he is yet again ! He must have his way. DESPITE HIS ATTEMPTS AT THINKING NOW THAT HE HAS THREE SONS AND ONE DAUGHTER HE WILL Finagle his way to his monarchy. None of which signifies any other way, but to rig this to happen.
Our American fundamentals will not allow for this to happen, because crime doesn’t pay.
… and this was a great conversation.
JVL is a great writer
JVL is my hands-down favorite political writer. He uses real language to communicate otherwise complicated ideas in a way that won’t depress you without making you crack a smirk at least once. Usually more than once. There’s often a laugh in there too! Sometimes you have to look for it, but it’s there. Gramercy and huzza, etc.
Learning what the word kayfabe means explains so much about reality now. I can’t remember who first pointed it out so can’t give credit but it was in the first term of the WWE presidency. It really helped me wrap my mind around why we are where we are.