GOP is stuck with Trump and they will continue to lose National elections because Trump is the most disliked Politician in the country now. The MAGA crowd cannot put Trump in the White House, thank God for that
I wonder if those like DeSantis and Haley would try running against him again in '28 or if they would just wait for him to die before ever running again.
It's not "normal" to try and illegally overturn the results of the democratic process of a free and fair election, and illegally install the loser.
No one installed a candidate, it was done thru the pre-approved rules of the party and the chosen delegates were free to vote for whoever they wished, and they chose the candidate, all in accordance with the rules.
Move on already, no one on earth believes maga cares one bit about voters deciding elections.
Having Nancy Pelosi say publicly that “she did what she had to do” in relation to Biden stepping down is not really democratic. What exactly did she “do?” Did she threaten a sitting president? Did she threaten the nominee? How exactly is this part of the “rules?” One votes…then George Clooney swoops in and removes the nominee?
What dud she do? She used her First Amendmemt Rights and spoke publicly. Oh, the horror!
The rules are about the delegates voting, which is how the Dems select a presidential noninee, and have absolutely nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi speaking in public.
Clooney used his First Anendment Rights also. And did not remove anyone. Stop being ridiculous.
That is not what the DNC rules actually state. It is both hilarious and sad that you saying delegates can vote for whomever they want while crying about January 6th.
Jan 6 was an attempt to STOP the legitamit CERTIFICATION of the election results, and had ZERO to do with delegates chosing who to vote for.
The US Constitution says on Jan 6 Congress must, without postponement or delay, CERTIFY the electoral college vote, period.
The DNC rules provide for delegates to vote for a replacement candidate, if the need arises before the convention and after the primaries. Those rules give the delegates the choice to vote for who ever they choose... and they did just that.
It’s not normal for an 82 year old person to run for president. It’s also not normal for a 78 year old to run either. There’s higher risk of abnormalities to happen when running at that age. For example you might exit the race less than a month before your convention and your running mate might need to take over.
President Biden didn't know that. He believed he could run and win. He was the leader of the party and the incumbent president, making the decision his alone. "Everyone" doesn't make the decision for whether a candidate stays in a race or not. The candidate does.
Two men of extraordinary age were leading their political parties. When faced with the harsh reality of his age, one man chose to give up power and the other is clutching tighter than ever.
It is not normal now. It used to be standard operating procedure. Until 1968! Not so long ago.
And I wish people who say she was "installed" note that no one—not even the guy from Minnesota—stepped in to challenge her. You can't run against no one!
It’s worth looking at how cults end to try to predict the future of the Republican Party. The cult leader doesn’t just retire or assume a normal life. The followers don’t just stop believing in the leader because others reject them.
I believe the Republican Party will have to officially reject Trump with some kind of rules changes or laws that make it impossible for him to run again as a Republican. Maybe they use his convictions?
If they are not able to do this the non-maga faction will have to join the Democratic Party or start a third party.
He's 78 and can only be around for so many more years. Some people keep going strong into their 90s, but that's the exception and not the rule. We saw what happened to Biden between 78 and 82. If we posit that he's not going anywhere until he dies, the more interesting question is what happens after he dies (or becomes too old/ill to function as a public figure). However enduring Trumpism might be with Trump around, no other GOP politicians have successfully integrated it into their own brands. Meatball Ron, Vance, Don Jr., Vivek, Hawley, Lake, Noem... none of them can come close to matching his particular style and magic. There's something sui generis about Trump and I'm not sure it can outlast him.
He’s an alleged billionaire and barring any deep sea metal tube rides or sailing yacht catastrophes, they tend to live a lot longer than the rest of us. This menace to our society could be around for another 20 years!!
Yes, but *most* billionaires have better taste and don’t gorge on McDonald’s or think that reasonable exercise “saps your limited life source”, hence the reason *they* live longer!
I don't think you are wrong, as much as I wish you were. But what deeply concerns me about this is hat it says about the American populace. I have said for a long time that what Trump did was take the limits off what is "acceptable." Trump has said out loud what was previously only hidden. Now every sort of foul, course, racist, sexist language is OK. I am not sure the Republican party past or present wants to take that on!
And as a pastor, I ant to suggest this is less a political problem as much as a spiritual one.
I agree, although I think those limits had already been severely weakened by the internet and social media. Trump just showed up on the political scene at exactly the right time to take advantage.
If Donald J Trump wins in November, or takes the Oval Office by force,there won’t be a 2028 election. You’ll have 4 years of Papa Trump(if he stays alive, given his obvious physical and mental decline) followed by Baby Trump(maybe DJTJ or Vance, or another young fascist). Republicans other than Trumpists have abandoned their Party to Trump…and if they wish to have any home of resurrecting an actual conservative Party, their best bet is to strongly support Harris in this election and to speak out loudly against attempts by Trump and his goons to claim a victory if they don’t win it fairly. The time for back-room grumbling and Lindsey Grahamish sideways attempts to check Trump’s behavior have failed, and will continue to fail.
I think it is just as delusional to believe that if Trump wins in November, he’ll just go away after his second term expires in 4 years. He’ll continue to pull the strings of power within the GOP because that’s what is good for him and his brand. Furthermore, it should not surprise anyone if his followers pursue a repeal of the 22nd Amendment so he never has to leave The White House again. Trump is not going to go away, ever, until Nature claims him.
I would disagree. A move away from Trumpism and a return to the past are different things. No, the Republican Party will not all of a sudden become Ronald Reagan's party again but political loyalties run shallow and parties exist to win elections. The party has largely transformed into a populist construct and a cult of personality but when politicians see a better chance to win somewhere else they will jump ship. If that means a new conservative party or just a fundamental shift in the GOP remains to be seen. Peronism is the exception not the rule.
I agree with you. Trump is going nowhere, other than possibly jail.
Agreed that the same with MAGA, they are going nowhere as well.
Sadly, the GOP is stuck with both and they are going to have to figure out how to deal with this.
My advice is that the GOP traditionalists are going to have to form a new party if they want to be relevant again. Maybe Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger can provide some guidance.
I worry the most about what happens if Trump loses.
Couldn't these people form a third party called the Conservative Party or something like that? I've been trying to convince an anti-Trump Haley-supporter friend of mine of that.
Trump is a unique individual - no one else will be able to try to be like Trump and unify all of the followers. Look at how JD Vance is polarizing to the Republican base, even though he is simply acting like Trump. Jordon, Comer, Gaetz, MTG - each of them only excite a small portion of the Trump faction. When Trump is gone, the MAGA base will fracture, however, will still dominate. For “traditional” republicans, their only option will be to create a third party - waiting for Trumpism to go away is a fool’s errand.
Yes and in John Dean's book Authoritarian Nightmare he writes that this palybook will not go away when Trump goes away... someone else will take his place. So the battleground states will decide our future for the foreseeable future no matter what we do. It's discouraging and heartbreaking. I'm sick of my country ...
On the bright side this may be true but remember JD and Josh got themselves into the Senate.. I am usually not this pessimistic ..but what upsets me is the "people " the "voters" if they continue to want this they will mold them into what they want ... The GOP are no longer leaders they are power hungry followers. There are many maga people down here in Florida ..I'm a NYC girl...What I see is all the stuff he does is excused and blamed on someone else.. They have a guy who has been convicted of 34 felonies and more but it's ok with them because the fake media is doing this to "HIM" and the dems are doing it .. For today I don't have a lot of hope... but I am wishing and hoping Kamala gets in ... as I had desperately wanted Hillary to get in ...Thank God Joe stepped aside ...
It will be a Trump family member—Don or Ivanka. If he wins in 24, they'll spend four years setting that up, and fixing it so they can't lose. (Trump Sr. may also get a new, eligible spouse!) I wouldn't even bet against them finding a way around the 22nd Amendment. Bloomberg did it in NYC.
The future indeed doesn't bode well, but not for the GOP, but the USA.
Four years ago I would have agreed. I don't anymore. Trump is sui generis. A lot of smart and/or charismatic GOP politicians have tried to copy Trumpism and none of them has made it work.
It’s even worse for the supposed sane GOP leaders like Brian Kemp, Spencer Cox, Chris Sununu, and others, that are making nice with hopes they will be at the table when he expires. Trump has actually positioned RFKJr and Tulsi Gabbard to assume leadership the crazy wing. Can’t tell if that’s 40% or 60% of Trump voters. But there will be no chairs at the table for these supposed normie GOP leaders.
If there's one thing that society devalues, it's old age. Ask Biden. As Trump continues to age, he will become less relevant. He will become more laughable with every passing year. Even if he's still alive ten years from now, how much power and attention will he command at 88?
The current nihilist nationalistic MAGA movement has its historical roots in Nixon Southern strategy of social grievance in reaction to the civil rights movement of the sixties. It was groomed through years by multiple GOP candidates through dog whistles and insider meme's, whilst the GOP elite focused on internationalism, small government, and taxes.
With Obama's historic 2008 win, the grassroots became completely reactionary and started to dominate the post Bush elites and actually elect like-minded representatives, as expressed by the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus movement. Trump is but the logical outcome of this process, with his only unique ability to express loudly on the national stage what was heretofore only expressed in whispers.
MAGA is not going away, the real danger post-Trump is the movement will find a new leader that will have the political skills to match the hyperbolic rhetoric.
Off the subject but I just have to ask. What do you think of Trump’s sudden making nice with Gov. Kemp? Did someone point out that if he is convicted in Georgia that Kemp is the only one that can pardon him,?
GOP is stuck with Trump and they will continue to lose National elections because Trump is the most disliked Politician in the country now. The MAGA crowd cannot put Trump in the White House, thank God for that
Agree. You’re missing that if he loses he’s still incentivized to continue running for president. His 2028 campaign will begin immediately.
Very true. I mention it in the vid -- he wants to remain relevant for as long as possible. And the best way to do that is to keep running.
I wonder if those like DeSantis and Haley would try running against him again in '28 or if they would just wait for him to die before ever running again.
It is not ‘normal’ to bypass a democratic process to install a candidate.
Don't disagree. But that's not at all what we are talking about here.
Actually, it is at the heart of the matter because it serves as a helpful benchmark to compare and contrast your definition of normalcy.
Normal is a peaceful transfer of power. Which used to be the highlight and world respected and envied jewel of the US...until Jan 6 2021
Pushing a 6 January narrative that does not correlate to any charges truly hurts democracy. Revising the factual basis is not the sign of a democracy.
It's not "normal" to try and illegally overturn the results of the democratic process of a free and fair election, and illegally install the loser.
No one installed a candidate, it was done thru the pre-approved rules of the party and the chosen delegates were free to vote for whoever they wished, and they chose the candidate, all in accordance with the rules.
Move on already, no one on earth believes maga cares one bit about voters deciding elections.
Having Nancy Pelosi say publicly that “she did what she had to do” in relation to Biden stepping down is not really democratic. What exactly did she “do?” Did she threaten a sitting president? Did she threaten the nominee? How exactly is this part of the “rules?” One votes…then George Clooney swoops in and removes the nominee?
She shared evidence and her expertise that he couldn't win and would cause many others in the party to lose. He listened.
Sounds like the Godfather
What dud she do? She used her First Amendmemt Rights and spoke publicly. Oh, the horror!
The rules are about the delegates voting, which is how the Dems select a presidential noninee, and have absolutely nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi speaking in public.
Clooney used his First Anendment Rights also. And did not remove anyone. Stop being ridiculous.
Yes. Two civilians just speaking their mind. No backroom dealings!
That is not what the DNC rules actually state. It is both hilarious and sad that you saying delegates can vote for whomever they want while crying about January 6th.
Jan 6 was an attempt to STOP the legitamit CERTIFICATION of the election results, and had ZERO to do with delegates chosing who to vote for.
The US Constitution says on Jan 6 Congress must, without postponement or delay, CERTIFY the electoral college vote, period.
The DNC rules provide for delegates to vote for a replacement candidate, if the need arises before the convention and after the primaries. Those rules give the delegates the choice to vote for who ever they choose... and they did just that.
Just stop with the gaslighting
It’s not normal for an 82 year old person to run for president. It’s also not normal for a 78 year old to run either. There’s higher risk of abnormalities to happen when running at that age. For example you might exit the race less than a month before your convention and your running mate might need to take over.
Everyone knew Biden was both old and incapacitated. The Democratic party, supported by the media, tried to hide it until they couldn’t.
Stop being ridiculous. Got proof of any "incapacity?" No!
To you, reality is a conspiracy, lol!!
President Biden didn't know that. He believed he could run and win. He was the leader of the party and the incumbent president, making the decision his alone. "Everyone" doesn't make the decision for whether a candidate stays in a race or not. The candidate does.
Two men of extraordinary age were leading their political parties. When faced with the harsh reality of his age, one man chose to give up power and the other is clutching tighter than ever.
This does not fit reality
It is not normal now. It used to be standard operating procedure. Until 1968! Not so long ago.
And I wish people who say she was "installed" note that no one—not even the guy from Minnesota—stepped in to challenge her. You can't run against no one!
It’s worth looking at how cults end to try to predict the future of the Republican Party. The cult leader doesn’t just retire or assume a normal life. The followers don’t just stop believing in the leader because others reject them.
I believe the Republican Party will have to officially reject Trump with some kind of rules changes or laws that make it impossible for him to run again as a Republican. Maybe they use his convictions?
If they are not able to do this the non-maga faction will have to join the Democratic Party or start a third party.
Unfortunately, I agree.
He's 78 and can only be around for so many more years. Some people keep going strong into their 90s, but that's the exception and not the rule. We saw what happened to Biden between 78 and 82. If we posit that he's not going anywhere until he dies, the more interesting question is what happens after he dies (or becomes too old/ill to function as a public figure). However enduring Trumpism might be with Trump around, no other GOP politicians have successfully integrated it into their own brands. Meatball Ron, Vance, Don Jr., Vivek, Hawley, Lake, Noem... none of them can come close to matching his particular style and magic. There's something sui generis about Trump and I'm not sure it can outlast him.
He’s an alleged billionaire and barring any deep sea metal tube rides or sailing yacht catastrophes, they tend to live a lot longer than the rest of us. This menace to our society could be around for another 20 years!!
Yes, but *most* billionaires have better taste and don’t gorge on McDonald’s or think that reasonable exercise “saps your limited life source”, hence the reason *they* live longer!
I don't think you are wrong, as much as I wish you were. But what deeply concerns me about this is hat it says about the American populace. I have said for a long time that what Trump did was take the limits off what is "acceptable." Trump has said out loud what was previously only hidden. Now every sort of foul, course, racist, sexist language is OK. I am not sure the Republican party past or present wants to take that on!
And as a pastor, I ant to suggest this is less a political problem as much as a spiritual one.
I agree, although I think those limits had already been severely weakened by the internet and social media. Trump just showed up on the political scene at exactly the right time to take advantage.
If Donald J Trump wins in November, or takes the Oval Office by force,there won’t be a 2028 election. You’ll have 4 years of Papa Trump(if he stays alive, given his obvious physical and mental decline) followed by Baby Trump(maybe DJTJ or Vance, or another young fascist). Republicans other than Trumpists have abandoned their Party to Trump…and if they wish to have any home of resurrecting an actual conservative Party, their best bet is to strongly support Harris in this election and to speak out loudly against attempts by Trump and his goons to claim a victory if they don’t win it fairly. The time for back-room grumbling and Lindsey Grahamish sideways attempts to check Trump’s behavior have failed, and will continue to fail.
I think it is just as delusional to believe that if Trump wins in November, he’ll just go away after his second term expires in 4 years. He’ll continue to pull the strings of power within the GOP because that’s what is good for him and his brand. Furthermore, it should not surprise anyone if his followers pursue a repeal of the 22nd Amendment so he never has to leave The White House again. Trump is not going to go away, ever, until Nature claims him.
I would disagree. A move away from Trumpism and a return to the past are different things. No, the Republican Party will not all of a sudden become Ronald Reagan's party again but political loyalties run shallow and parties exist to win elections. The party has largely transformed into a populist construct and a cult of personality but when politicians see a better chance to win somewhere else they will jump ship. If that means a new conservative party or just a fundamental shift in the GOP remains to be seen. Peronism is the exception not the rule.
Seriously?
I agree with you. Trump is going nowhere, other than possibly jail.
Agreed that the same with MAGA, they are going nowhere as well.
Sadly, the GOP is stuck with both and they are going to have to figure out how to deal with this.
My advice is that the GOP traditionalists are going to have to form a new party if they want to be relevant again. Maybe Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger can provide some guidance.
I worry the most about what happens if Trump loses.
Couldn't these people form a third party called the Conservative Party or something like that? I've been trying to convince an anti-Trump Haley-supporter friend of mine of that.
I totally disagree, Chris. If he loses he’s going to prison. There’s no bouncing back from that. One of these cases is going to result in jail time.
Oooh I forgot about that possibility. Sentencing is coming up this month!
Trump is a unique individual - no one else will be able to try to be like Trump and unify all of the followers. Look at how JD Vance is polarizing to the Republican base, even though he is simply acting like Trump. Jordon, Comer, Gaetz, MTG - each of them only excite a small portion of the Trump faction. When Trump is gone, the MAGA base will fracture, however, will still dominate. For “traditional” republicans, their only option will be to create a third party - waiting for Trumpism to go away is a fool’s errand.
Yes and in John Dean's book Authoritarian Nightmare he writes that this palybook will not go away when Trump goes away... someone else will take his place. So the battleground states will decide our future for the foreseeable future no matter what we do. It's discouraging and heartbreaking. I'm sick of my country ...
I am more sick for
on the bright side, if the future for them is JD Vance or Josh Hawley or Don Jr., well, that doesn't bode well.
On the bright side this may be true but remember JD and Josh got themselves into the Senate.. I am usually not this pessimistic ..but what upsets me is the "people " the "voters" if they continue to want this they will mold them into what they want ... The GOP are no longer leaders they are power hungry followers. There are many maga people down here in Florida ..I'm a NYC girl...What I see is all the stuff he does is excused and blamed on someone else.. They have a guy who has been convicted of 34 felonies and more but it's ok with them because the fake media is doing this to "HIM" and the dems are doing it .. For today I don't have a lot of hope... but I am wishing and hoping Kamala gets in ... as I had desperately wanted Hillary to get in ...Thank God Joe stepped aside ...
It will be a Trump family member—Don or Ivanka. If he wins in 24, they'll spend four years setting that up, and fixing it so they can't lose. (Trump Sr. may also get a new, eligible spouse!) I wouldn't even bet against them finding a way around the 22nd Amendment. Bloomberg did it in NYC.
The future indeed doesn't bode well, but not for the GOP, but the USA.
Four years ago I would have agreed. I don't anymore. Trump is sui generis. A lot of smart and/or charismatic GOP politicians have tried to copy Trumpism and none of them has made it work.
Move
"Move" is that my country love it or leave it?
It’s even worse for the supposed sane GOP leaders like Brian Kemp, Spencer Cox, Chris Sununu, and others, that are making nice with hopes they will be at the table when he expires. Trump has actually positioned RFKJr and Tulsi Gabbard to assume leadership the crazy wing. Can’t tell if that’s 40% or 60% of Trump voters. But there will be no chairs at the table for these supposed normie GOP leaders.
If there's one thing that society devalues, it's old age. Ask Biden. As Trump continues to age, he will become less relevant. He will become more laughable with every passing year. Even if he's still alive ten years from now, how much power and attention will he command at 88?
The current nihilist nationalistic MAGA movement has its historical roots in Nixon Southern strategy of social grievance in reaction to the civil rights movement of the sixties. It was groomed through years by multiple GOP candidates through dog whistles and insider meme's, whilst the GOP elite focused on internationalism, small government, and taxes.
With Obama's historic 2008 win, the grassroots became completely reactionary and started to dominate the post Bush elites and actually elect like-minded representatives, as expressed by the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus movement. Trump is but the logical outcome of this process, with his only unique ability to express loudly on the national stage what was heretofore only expressed in whispers.
MAGA is not going away, the real danger post-Trump is the movement will find a new leader that will have the political skills to match the hyperbolic rhetoric.
Off the subject but I just have to ask. What do you think of Trump’s sudden making nice with Gov. Kemp? Did someone point out that if he is convicted in Georgia that Kemp is the only one that can pardon him,?