Ogles is my congressman. He is an idiot and was only elected because the GOP dominated Tennessee Legislature and Governor jerrymandered the district. They split up Davidson County (Metro Nashville) into 3 districts so as to deny Metro Nashville/Davidson County Congressional representation which it had for over 200 YEARS!
The GOP split the District for several reasons one of which they were mad at the Nashville/Davidson County Commission because it refused to support a bid for the 2024 GOP National Convention. You may also remember the "Tennessee Three" when the GOP State House censured 3 Democractic members for speaking out against gun violence.
And with the shooting at Antioch High School on Wednesday we've heard crickets from the Tennessee GOP on gun safety and control legislation.
Same thing has happened in NC. We are about a 50-50 state, but due to extreme gerrymandering that even the SCOTUS pushed back on, we have a 9 -3 (or close to that, GOP dominance in Congress.
I am a liberal Democrat who was born in Philadelphia, PA and lived in DC/Northern VA, New Haven, CT, Boston, MA, and a suburb of Detroit, MI. However, I moved to the suburbs of Atlanta 34 years ago. While MTG and Tuberville are morons, and Ogles may be in that category as well, there are at least several past and current legislators who have or had high intellectual and emotional intelligence. John Lewis, Andrew Young, Jon Ossoff, Raphael Warnock, and Lucy McBath come to mind. My current representative, Richard McCormick, is a Republican and is an emergency room physician. He doesn’t represent my viewpoints in Congress, but he clearly isn’t stupid. Finally, there is Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia. Again, I disagree with Kemp on most issues, but he’s no dummy.
The stupidity of legislators is not limited to the South. The stupidity is pervasive in the Republican Party because everyone who isn’t in a safe Senate seat must pledge fealty to Trump. Trump is an accomplished conman, but he is not the brightest bulb in the box. So those who have pledged their allegiance and undying loyalty to Trump have to sink to his level of stupidity in order to survive politically.
We had Cordell Hull, Al Gore, Howard Baker, even ethically challenged Lamar Alexander. So it's possible to elect people with intelligence and integrity just not now.
Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) would certainly be evidence for this hypothesis. He famously worried that the island of Guam would capsize if there were too many people on it.
In general it is a requirement for most politicians
We have an idiot state senator who proposes the most ridiculous bills He doesn't eve show up half the time The district that voted him to the state house of representatives tried to recall him So he ran for the state senate
Then we have Ron Johnson, an honorary member of Q-Anon The only one that outshines him is MTG
I lack your apparent confidence that it actually _is_ stupid behavior on Ogles' part given my guesses as to his likely incentives (such as what I presume is his wish to be reelected) - I don't know enough to have an informed opinion as to whether he is meaningfully stupider or not as a "person" than the median congressbeing from a single party district.
I _do_ know not to confuse performative political gestures such as Ogles' with stupidity, regardless of my view of the substantive policy that the performative gesture or the performer is supposedly trying to advance.
Also I try not to confuse [especially but not only political] behavior I *really* don't like with stupidity - one obvious case there would be McConnell's refusal to hold hearings for Merrick's SCOTUS nomination; I was strongly opposed but I don't think it was stupid given what McConnell hoped to achieve.
For what it's worth, I think the 22nd Amendment was a huge mistake, as it means every second-term president is an automatic lame duck. But with that said, clearly this is just a stunt, since it would never pass. You didn't mention the irony that it was Republicans who spearheaded the Amendment originally, and term limits have historically been a GOP priority, not a Democratic one.
I would generally agree about the lame duck status, but I think those rules have changed significantly given what's happened in the first 4 days of Trump's second term. I only wish he was a lame duck.
I also know that several typically red states (IN and FL come to mind) have term limits for their Executive branch (read Governor) so the idea that a GOP member would propose ignoring a term limit amendment is laughable, and clearly meant as a way to garner attention from Trump.
Actually the founding fathers debated a term limit Of course Washington set the example with two terms Everyone after that followed the unofficial precedent until FDR TR did do a second run after he got upset with Taft That would have been a third term since McKinley was assassinated a few months after his inauguration
These doubts about unlimited presidential terms of office did not fade away after President Washington set the unofficial two-term precedent in 1796. Scholar Stephen W. Stathis explains in a 1990 paper that Congress considered early versions of presidential term limit amendments in 1803 and 1808, and the Senate approved term-limit resolutions in 1824 and 1826, only to be rejected by the House.
Exactly right, the hurdles to amending the Constitution are too great to take Ogles’ resolution too seriously. Members often introduce, as a performative move, legislation that isn’t going anywhere. I’d be more concerned if this gets a committee hearing and a vote in the House, mainly because it will take time away from more serious things. It would still be performative.
Thinking outside the box a bit, I’ve wondered if Trump would push for an Article V constitutional convention. There are already a significant number of states that have called for a constitutional convention (two-thirds is required), mostly on the subject of a balanced budget amendment. Some constitutional experts believe that if a convention were held there would be no limits on what can be considered. This scenario seems unlikely, but I also once thought a second Trump term would be unlikely.
Some Constitutional experts? I've never heard anyone say that any topic would be off the table. All I've ever read, and I may be wrong so not trying to be over the top, is that it's a pandora's box. Once the genie's out the bottle.....no telling what sort of "Constitution" we come out with. Of course the doc then has to be ratified by the 3/4.....38 states.....but still. Sort of scary.
The report linked below provides a lot of info on the subject, including discussion of a “limited” vs a “runaway” convention. Point is that there’s enough ambiguity to be concerned that it would be wide open, and then what happens? But as you point out, 3/4 state approval is a high bar. Trump won 31 states in 2024, still well short of 3/4 but still too close.
I'd always operated under the premise that it would be a forgone conclusion it would be a "runaway" convention. I guess cynic in me believes that is partially the motivation anyhow. Open it up under the guise of X idea.....and then take away Y....Z rights.
This is the problem in a social media world. Left or Right, they're all looking for clicks. My basic rule to know if you're a serious Congressperson is that if I see you on CNN/MSNBC/Fox, you're not serious. To use the modern lingo, Andy Ogles self-identifies as a clown.
Trump will do anything to get what he wants and to avoid consequences for what he's done. Read that again. He has no regard for any constraints on his behavior. The good people of the United States of America have put an amoral, unethical, narcissistic, AUTHORITARIAN CRIMINAL in the White House for a second time. He tried to retain office in 2021 in spite of losing the election and nearly succeeded. He will not ever go quietly into that good night.
Chris Cillizza, I am surprised that you are poo-pooing all this, considering that you yourself have previously reported on Trump's repeated "jokes" about holding office for more than two terms. He ain't joking; he will attempt to install himself as president for life.
OK, I'm fine with that. He's gonna be really old, so we need to prepare for this. With the following requirements:
1. The rotting corpse must remain in the Oval Office the entire term. No time off for burial or cremation. You want to serve, you need to be there.
2, All the MAGA idiots that think this is a great idea need to be the ones that stay with him and clean up the MAGGOTS.
3. The Diet Coke button must be replaced with a formaldehyde dispenser to attempt to embalm the body.
4. The inevitable succession fight between Baron and Don Jr. must be televised live as a WWE pay-per-view event with Stormy Daniels as the Ring Gal. Melania gets to be the referee with a really well tailored black and white Gucci outfit. Don's ex-fiance is the Ring Announcer. Winner take all, loser agrees to become a democrat.
Correct, not gonna happen. No bigger Trump supporter than me however I don’t want a third Trump term. This second term is gonna wear him out, esp as quickly as he is moving right now. It’s someone else’s turn in 4 years.
Embrace the moment, we will never see another Trump in our lifetimes. We are living history right now!
Not even a week in and he's already a failure, slapped down by a judge, violating campaign promises, and releasing violent criminals onto the streets, at least one of whom has already been re-arrested.
Thank you, Chris, for putting my mind, well, I don't know if "at ease" is completely accurate, but for purposes of this particular issue, I am feeling less on the verge of implosion than I was when I first got wind of this.
I hope people remember that it was not that long ago that many thought there was no way Trump could get elected. It was a preposterous idea. Then it happened. And people thought there's no way he would try to deny he lost the election. Or that he would never see a day of jail time for crimes determined by a jury of his peers. Or that he would be reelected. So, when I hear people say something can't happen or won't happen, it makes me skeptical and terrified.
Fascism succeeds by incrementally destroying norms.
Today it’s this Podunk congressman. Tomorrow, it’ll be a senator. Then a red state legislature will pass it even tho the US Congress/Senate has not ratified it by the necessary threshold. Then another red state will pass it. Then the pressure will build on Capitol Hill to pass it.
Then the attacks on the 22nd amendment will begin, how it was a radical move to keep another FDR from becoming a dictator but this time it’s different, the nation needs Trump For Life.
I hate to say this but this nation was where we are today in 1936. Huey Long was the Louisiana governor and senator simultaneously. He ran the state like a fiefdom. He was popular and FDR knew Long would beat him.
Only one thing saved this nation from Long’s fascism.
I fear that is our only solution here too.
Aside from that drastic approach is the courage of the GOP to stop him and I’m not seeing it.
Ogles is my congressman. He is an idiot and was only elected because the GOP dominated Tennessee Legislature and Governor jerrymandered the district. They split up Davidson County (Metro Nashville) into 3 districts so as to deny Metro Nashville/Davidson County Congressional representation which it had for over 200 YEARS!
The GOP split the District for several reasons one of which they were mad at the Nashville/Davidson County Commission because it refused to support a bid for the 2024 GOP National Convention. You may also remember the "Tennessee Three" when the GOP State House censured 3 Democractic members for speaking out against gun violence.
And with the shooting at Antioch High School on Wednesday we've heard crickets from the Tennessee GOP on gun safety and control legislation.
Same thing has happened in NC. We are about a 50-50 state, but due to extreme gerrymandering that even the SCOTUS pushed back on, we have a 9 -3 (or close to that, GOP dominance in Congress.
Is stupidity a prerequisite for being a legislator from the South?
Have you been to the South?
If so, it'd become abundantly clear after!
The question was rhetorical. Tuberville has to be one of the stupidest sons of a bitch I've ever seen. Guess Andy's of the same ilk.
Ron Johnson thanks heaven for Tuberville since it means he's no longer the biggest idiot in the Senate.
Lot of competition for that title🙄
😂
I am a liberal Democrat who was born in Philadelphia, PA and lived in DC/Northern VA, New Haven, CT, Boston, MA, and a suburb of Detroit, MI. However, I moved to the suburbs of Atlanta 34 years ago. While MTG and Tuberville are morons, and Ogles may be in that category as well, there are at least several past and current legislators who have or had high intellectual and emotional intelligence. John Lewis, Andrew Young, Jon Ossoff, Raphael Warnock, and Lucy McBath come to mind. My current representative, Richard McCormick, is a Republican and is an emergency room physician. He doesn’t represent my viewpoints in Congress, but he clearly isn’t stupid. Finally, there is Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia. Again, I disagree with Kemp on most issues, but he’s no dummy.
The stupidity of legislators is not limited to the South. The stupidity is pervasive in the Republican Party because everyone who isn’t in a safe Senate seat must pledge fealty to Trump. Trump is an accomplished conman, but he is not the brightest bulb in the box. So those who have pledged their allegiance and undying loyalty to Trump have to sink to his level of stupidity in order to survive politically.
We had Cordell Hull, Al Gore, Howard Baker, even ethically challenged Lamar Alexander. So it's possible to elect people with intelligence and integrity just not now.
All the above are fairly highly esteemed on a bipartisan basis Cordell Hall received a Nobel Peace Prize for his work on founding the UN
I especially liked Alexander because he believed legislators should be part time Nor practical but admirable
I appreciate your thoughtful comment.
Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) would certainly be evidence for this hypothesis. He famously worried that the island of Guam would capsize if there were too many people on it.
😂
In general it is a requirement for most politicians
We have an idiot state senator who proposes the most ridiculous bills He doesn't eve show up half the time The district that voted him to the state house of representatives tried to recall him So he ran for the state senate
Then we have Ron Johnson, an honorary member of Q-Anon The only one that outshines him is MTG
He is one firm vote for RFK
I lack your apparent confidence that it actually _is_ stupid behavior on Ogles' part given my guesses as to his likely incentives (such as what I presume is his wish to be reelected) - I don't know enough to have an informed opinion as to whether he is meaningfully stupider or not as a "person" than the median congressbeing from a single party district.
I _do_ know not to confuse performative political gestures such as Ogles' with stupidity, regardless of my view of the substantive policy that the performative gesture or the performer is supposedly trying to advance.
Also I try not to confuse [especially but not only political] behavior I *really* don't like with stupidity - one obvious case there would be McConnell's refusal to hold hearings for Merrick's SCOTUS nomination; I was strongly opposed but I don't think it was stupid given what McConnell hoped to achieve.
it wasn't stupid but it certainly was malicious.
For what it's worth, I think the 22nd Amendment was a huge mistake, as it means every second-term president is an automatic lame duck. But with that said, clearly this is just a stunt, since it would never pass. You didn't mention the irony that it was Republicans who spearheaded the Amendment originally, and term limits have historically been a GOP priority, not a Democratic one.
I would generally agree about the lame duck status, but I think those rules have changed significantly given what's happened in the first 4 days of Trump's second term. I only wish he was a lame duck.
'Lame duck' is an ableist expression!!!
I also know that several typically red states (IN and FL come to mind) have term limits for their Executive branch (read Governor) so the idea that a GOP member would propose ignoring a term limit amendment is laughable, and clearly meant as a way to garner attention from Trump.
Actually the founding fathers debated a term limit Of course Washington set the example with two terms Everyone after that followed the unofficial precedent until FDR TR did do a second run after he got upset with Taft That would have been a third term since McKinley was assassinated a few months after his inauguration
These doubts about unlimited presidential terms of office did not fade away after President Washington set the unofficial two-term precedent in 1796. Scholar Stephen W. Stathis explains in a 1990 paper that Congress considered early versions of presidential term limit amendments in 1803 and 1808, and the Senate approved term-limit resolutions in 1824 and 1826, only to be rejected by the House.
Dewey might have proposed it when he was defeated but it certainly was not a new idea https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/how-the-22nd-amendment-came-into-existence
Exactly right, the hurdles to amending the Constitution are too great to take Ogles’ resolution too seriously. Members often introduce, as a performative move, legislation that isn’t going anywhere. I’d be more concerned if this gets a committee hearing and a vote in the House, mainly because it will take time away from more serious things. It would still be performative.
Thinking outside the box a bit, I’ve wondered if Trump would push for an Article V constitutional convention. There are already a significant number of states that have called for a constitutional convention (two-thirds is required), mostly on the subject of a balanced budget amendment. Some constitutional experts believe that if a convention were held there would be no limits on what can be considered. This scenario seems unlikely, but I also once thought a second Trump term would be unlikely.
Some Constitutional experts? I've never heard anyone say that any topic would be off the table. All I've ever read, and I may be wrong so not trying to be over the top, is that it's a pandora's box. Once the genie's out the bottle.....no telling what sort of "Constitution" we come out with. Of course the doc then has to be ratified by the 3/4.....38 states.....but still. Sort of scary.
The report linked below provides a lot of info on the subject, including discussion of a “limited” vs a “runaway” convention. Point is that there’s enough ambiguity to be concerned that it would be wide open, and then what happens? But as you point out, 3/4 state approval is a high bar. Trump won 31 states in 2024, still well short of 3/4 but still too close.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R42589/15
Thanks for the link.
I'd always operated under the premise that it would be a forgone conclusion it would be a "runaway" convention. I guess cynic in me believes that is partially the motivation anyhow. Open it up under the guise of X idea.....and then take away Y....Z rights.
Why is anyone surprised at this? Of course they are going to try this. Talk about stroking Donald's ... whatever! 🤦♂️😉
I totally agree with Chris because the 22nd Amendment is very, very clear that he is limited to two terms.
That said though, it does not preclude Trump from just refusing to leave in 2029 which is much more likely.
I wonder if Ogles realizes that this would allow Barack Obama, who is younger and more popular, to run again?
Yes, he does. That's why his harebrained scheme would only apply to presidents with NON-CONSECUTIVE terms.
Waiting for one of these MAGAts to propose creating an exemption for #PresidentMusk.
This is the problem in a social media world. Left or Right, they're all looking for clicks. My basic rule to know if you're a serious Congressperson is that if I see you on CNN/MSNBC/Fox, you're not serious. To use the modern lingo, Andy Ogles self-identifies as a clown.
Trump will do anything to get what he wants and to avoid consequences for what he's done. Read that again. He has no regard for any constraints on his behavior. The good people of the United States of America have put an amoral, unethical, narcissistic, AUTHORITARIAN CRIMINAL in the White House for a second time. He tried to retain office in 2021 in spite of losing the election and nearly succeeded. He will not ever go quietly into that good night.
Chris Cillizza, I am surprised that you are poo-pooing all this, considering that you yourself have previously reported on Trump's repeated "jokes" about holding office for more than two terms. He ain't joking; he will attempt to install himself as president for life.
OK, I'm fine with that. He's gonna be really old, so we need to prepare for this. With the following requirements:
1. The rotting corpse must remain in the Oval Office the entire term. No time off for burial or cremation. You want to serve, you need to be there.
2, All the MAGA idiots that think this is a great idea need to be the ones that stay with him and clean up the MAGGOTS.
3. The Diet Coke button must be replaced with a formaldehyde dispenser to attempt to embalm the body.
4. The inevitable succession fight between Baron and Don Jr. must be televised live as a WWE pay-per-view event with Stormy Daniels as the Ring Gal. Melania gets to be the referee with a really well tailored black and white Gucci outfit. Don's ex-fiance is the Ring Announcer. Winner take all, loser agrees to become a democrat.
Correct, not gonna happen. No bigger Trump supporter than me however I don’t want a third Trump term. This second term is gonna wear him out, esp as quickly as he is moving right now. It’s someone else’s turn in 4 years.
Embrace the moment, we will never see another Trump in our lifetimes. We are living history right now!
I hope like hell we never see another Trump in my lifetime or the lifetime of my grandkids.
Not even a week in and he's already a failure, slapped down by a judge, violating campaign promises, and releasing violent criminals onto the streets, at least one of whom has already been re-arrested.
Hell no! Just hell no!
So, Biden at 82 is too old, but Trump at 82 isn’t. Got it.
Thank you, Chris, for putting my mind, well, I don't know if "at ease" is completely accurate, but for purposes of this particular issue, I am feeling less on the verge of implosion than I was when I first got wind of this.
God forbid!!
I hope people remember that it was not that long ago that many thought there was no way Trump could get elected. It was a preposterous idea. Then it happened. And people thought there's no way he would try to deny he lost the election. Or that he would never see a day of jail time for crimes determined by a jury of his peers. Or that he would be reelected. So, when I hear people say something can't happen or won't happen, it makes me skeptical and terrified.
Fascism succeeds by incrementally destroying norms.
Today it’s this Podunk congressman. Tomorrow, it’ll be a senator. Then a red state legislature will pass it even tho the US Congress/Senate has not ratified it by the necessary threshold. Then another red state will pass it. Then the pressure will build on Capitol Hill to pass it.
Then the attacks on the 22nd amendment will begin, how it was a radical move to keep another FDR from becoming a dictator but this time it’s different, the nation needs Trump For Life.
I hate to say this but this nation was where we are today in 1936. Huey Long was the Louisiana governor and senator simultaneously. He ran the state like a fiefdom. He was popular and FDR knew Long would beat him.
Only one thing saved this nation from Long’s fascism.
I fear that is our only solution here too.
Aside from that drastic approach is the courage of the GOP to stop him and I’m not seeing it.