Me too. Biden is never going to be on the ballot again, either. He and his family don't owe anything more to this country than the decades of service and sacrifice they have already given.
Knowing that Trump is going to pardon the J6 thugs on day one leaves me not caring that Biden is pardoning his son. By the time Trump is done with his 4 years in office, the Biden pardon will look like the biggest nothing burger in the world
It was a nothing burger the minute it was announced IMO. It will be completely forgotten. This democratic self-flagellation is ridiculous. Hunter repaid his taxes, the penalties and interest, and lied on a form about drug use - to buy a gun for protection, not to commit crimes (Note: THIS is the gun control enforcement MAGA wants? Get real). No one on the planet should GAF about this. The only thing this accomplished was allowed an 82 year old man in his twilight years/time to spend more time with his son out of jail for crimes he should not be sentenced to jail for. And make no mistake, Hunter would have been jailed for this nonsense. I trust Trump and his DOJ with Hunter in federal prison as much as I do with Epstein. How the hell did that work out?
We haven't lost the moral high ground because in our never ending on ongoing false equivalence of BS, this is equated to Trump actually already pardoning criminals, Stone and Flynn to name 2, will pardon J6 seditionists/insurrectionists (choose your preferred term), and Trump himself is a 34x convicted felon, am adjudicated rapist, tax cheat, fraudster, defamer, grifter (Trump U anyone, Bueller?), snake oil salesman, had 3 other trials of more significant detriment to national security and democracy dismissed because he won the election.
But sure, we've lost the moral high ground. Give me an effing break.
This is so INCREDIBLY true!! It’s a super nothing burger in the big scheme of politics and only the chattering class (including you Chris) as you say, are still talking about it. These folks need to come up into the cheap seats and view the world. So out of touch on this one.
Oh, Chris. Please stop clutching your pearls on this issue. Biden ultimately played the father card to protect his kid from a vengeful Trump. I dare say you would have done the same.
Bennett is just another mealymouthed Democrat clutching his pearls over a political move that has no bearing at all on a “moral high ground”. In case Bennett has not noticed, any sense of a moral high ground has been absent in politics for a long time. He is the guy who shows up for a nuclear war carrying nail clippers. Democrats would do better to support Biden’s move in the face of the monstrous administration that is coming. Let’s not devour our own in an effort to sustain a morality to which we have no claim. I mean, we ran an 82 year old for the presidency, then panicked when we realized that he was beyond saving as a candidate, we continue to send ammo to Israel without making it contingent in not targeting civilians, we dance with Russia in Ukraine, finally granting permission for the big guns when Trump is headed for the White House with Putin calling the shots, I would like the good Senator to explain to me just exactly what moral high ground he thinks we had and lost because Biden pardoned Hunter. He and the rest of our leadership had better stop whining and get busy planning for a robust midterm.
"But, I also believe that how Democrats conduct themselves and define themselves vis a vis Trump over the next few years will matter hugely in the 2026 midterms and the 2028 race."
Chris did finally concede toward the end that "It may be a moot point going forward because Trump isn’t going to ever be on the ballot again." Well, Biden isn't going to ever be on the ballot again, either. Whoever the Democrat nominee in 2028 is -- presumably/hopefully someone 20+ years younger -- will be able to detach themselves from Biden much more than Kamala could, and anything Biden does now will not be much of a factor in that race.
I mean, maybe. Biden (and Democrats in general) up until this point did everything they could to follow norms/optics/however you want to look at it. The country chose Trump anyway. It seems obvious that these things don't matter outside of the Beltway all that much.
It’s hard to stand in someone else’s shoes. Biden lost a wife, a small child, an adult son and now he’s about to leave office with a son in prison. My only child, brilliant scientist son, died a yr ago and it’s hell.
It is just utter nonsense to think that President Biden's legacy will be damaged by the pardon. As Eugene Robinson and other, have pointed out, the only people talking about the pardon are the pundits like Chris. As Dave pointed out, there is actual news breaking out these days. I'm not certain that Chris can find it.
The naivete of anyone who argues the moral high ground. The democrats and others who maintained the moral high ground over the past 8 years have not been rewarded nor have they moved the needle with "Maga" world. This argument may have been valid 30 years ago, but what you are missing is that there are not enough if any conservatives/republicans that care. There was a time when this mattered, but it no longer exists. The rules have changed and those of high moral standard will need to adjust.
Exactly, Trump voters are immoral and nothing is going to change that. Our best hope, in my opinion, is support taxpayer funded college in the swing states and move the needle a few points in the next generation. I escaped my Limbaugh/Fox brainwashed family by going to college.
I agree that the moral high ground is not the right approach for the current day. There will be a day when it matters again. Right now a combination of brass knuckles and pragmatism are the way to go for Democrats.
I think something changed when Obama became President with the emergence of the Tea Party. Since then the moral high ground argument has been a loser.
I totally and vehemently disagree with you and Senator Bennett. do you really think he should have left his son to the vindictiveness of Trump and Kash Patel? Hasn’t his family suffered enough or do you too want to grind Hunter into the ground in hopes you can drive him off his hard fought sobriety. Shame on you. Despite the language, this pretty well sums up exactly what I think of your preaching about Biden ceding the high ground.https://open.substack.com/pub/jefftiedrich/p/hunter-bidens-pardon-has-broken-the?r=53n8c&utm_medium=ios
Circumstances significantly changed. Does that mean he can’t change? Have you never changed course given a vastly different set of circumstances from when you made a decision?
I actually really do enjoy your writing and have for some time. And you are 100% some one I could get along with: we travel to the same places and we could spend probably hours crushing Portuguese wine while going toe to toe on Always Sunny and Arrested Development quotes. But festering on the Biden pardon at this point is like wearing a muscle suit under your jean shorts at this point.
Chris 2.0 is going on a revenge tour. This pardon is a nothing burger in light of what his choice to head the FBI has repeatedly said he wants to do.
This guy wants to go after Cassidy Hutchinson for crying out loud!
"Kash Patel has an enemies list centered on grievance
The loyalist Trump hopes will run the FBI published a list of members of the “Deep State” that’s mostly a list of people who have wronged him or Trump."
Disagree with you Chris. The American people chose Trump...a felon and a rapist who said he will be a dictator on day 1. The Republicans will complain about Democrats no matter what they do, like the bully in school who just waits for you to trip and then stands over you spitting in your face and laughing at you. No more take the high road stuff. The American people don't believe it or value it, as they showed in the election. If I were Biden, I'd pardon my son too.
Lighten up, Chris. This holier than thou attitude is really unbecoming. If we were discussing former transitions then I might agree with you but we are not. We are about to see vindictiveness unchained. Also, if you had had some experience with a son in jail (and I hope you do not) perhaps you would not sound so self-righteous.
Yeah totally. Screw the law, he lost his kids! I wonder how many pardons he issued for the parents of the thousands of kids he sent off to war in Iraq when he voted “yes.” Let me check, oh zero. Only works for him, never the proletariat.
me. The fact that Biden lost his kids, while absolutely sad, that doesn’t mean he can do whatever he wants. Was it legal? Sure. Was it sketchy? Absolutely. If Trump did it would you lose your mind? Also yes.
2.0 pardoned a lot of real criminals, and you had a problem with that? No.
2.0 is promising to pardon real criminals who followed his bidding in attacking our nations Capitol, and also attacked the police protecting the Capitol, and you have a problem with that? No.
2.0 is promising revenge, and wants to put at head of the FBI a guy who wants to go after people even tangentially connected to things 2.0 and Patel disagree with, weaponizing the FBI against their "enemies." Patel has been personally talking about going after Hunter for years, and is bent on destroying him, that is why President Biden gave him the pardon. If any other person was heading the next administration this pardon would not have happened. Even Cassidy Hutchison who only worked for a short time in 2.0's white house and simply testified to what she witnessed is now in the crosshairs of revenge from Patel
Read this from Washington post for free
"Kash Patel has an enemies list centered on grievance
The loyalist Trump hopes will run the FBI published a list of members of the “Deep State” that’s mostly a list of people who have wronged him or Trump."
Trump never ran on a restoring democracy platform. Biden did. He lied. He also lost. That’s how life goes. I think the whole pardon system is absurd. But those are the rules.
Your writing about this topic is asinine. Back to the same nonsense- take the focus away from 45 and shine it on a man who has lost his children and is desperate to save the one he can. Biden said one thing about the justice system- ONE. And that’s the hill you’re all going to die on? It’s a non-issue. 45 pardoned Kushner and then made him a fucking ambassador. Talk about THAT. And all the scum of the earth he has and will pardon. Do better.
Nope. Sorry. Biden Sr has suffered enough. I fully support his decision.
Me too. Biden is never going to be on the ballot again, either. He and his family don't owe anything more to this country than the decades of service and sacrifice they have already given.
Bullshit!
That doesn't mean he has to impugn the American justice system like a common Republican kleptocrat.
If it was me, In a New York minute I would do the same dammed thing!!!
Knowing that Trump is going to pardon the J6 thugs on day one leaves me not caring that Biden is pardoning his son. By the time Trump is done with his 4 years in office, the Biden pardon will look like the biggest nothing burger in the world
It was a nothing burger the minute it was announced IMO. It will be completely forgotten. This democratic self-flagellation is ridiculous. Hunter repaid his taxes, the penalties and interest, and lied on a form about drug use - to buy a gun for protection, not to commit crimes (Note: THIS is the gun control enforcement MAGA wants? Get real). No one on the planet should GAF about this. The only thing this accomplished was allowed an 82 year old man in his twilight years/time to spend more time with his son out of jail for crimes he should not be sentenced to jail for. And make no mistake, Hunter would have been jailed for this nonsense. I trust Trump and his DOJ with Hunter in federal prison as much as I do with Epstein. How the hell did that work out?
We haven't lost the moral high ground because in our never ending on ongoing false equivalence of BS, this is equated to Trump actually already pardoning criminals, Stone and Flynn to name 2, will pardon J6 seditionists/insurrectionists (choose your preferred term), and Trump himself is a 34x convicted felon, am adjudicated rapist, tax cheat, fraudster, defamer, grifter (Trump U anyone, Bueller?), snake oil salesman, had 3 other trials of more significant detriment to national security and democracy dismissed because he won the election.
But sure, we've lost the moral high ground. Give me an effing break.
Agreed. The chattering class is up in arms over this. The general public has already moved on - if they were even aware of it to begin with.
This is so INCREDIBLY true!! It’s a super nothing burger in the big scheme of politics and only the chattering class (including you Chris) as you say, are still talking about it. These folks need to come up into the cheap seats and view the world. So out of touch on this one.
Oh, Chris. Please stop clutching your pearls on this issue. Biden ultimately played the father card to protect his kid from a vengeful Trump. I dare say you would have done the same.
I would have done the same.
Amen, brother.
Spot On Randy; I believe most of us would.
Bennett is just another mealymouthed Democrat clutching his pearls over a political move that has no bearing at all on a “moral high ground”. In case Bennett has not noticed, any sense of a moral high ground has been absent in politics for a long time. He is the guy who shows up for a nuclear war carrying nail clippers. Democrats would do better to support Biden’s move in the face of the monstrous administration that is coming. Let’s not devour our own in an effort to sustain a morality to which we have no claim. I mean, we ran an 82 year old for the presidency, then panicked when we realized that he was beyond saving as a candidate, we continue to send ammo to Israel without making it contingent in not targeting civilians, we dance with Russia in Ukraine, finally granting permission for the big guns when Trump is headed for the White House with Putin calling the shots, I would like the good Senator to explain to me just exactly what moral high ground he thinks we had and lost because Biden pardoned Hunter. He and the rest of our leadership had better stop whining and get busy planning for a robust midterm.
"But, I also believe that how Democrats conduct themselves and define themselves vis a vis Trump over the next few years will matter hugely in the 2026 midterms and the 2028 race."
Why? It didn't in 2024.
Chris did finally concede toward the end that "It may be a moot point going forward because Trump isn’t going to ever be on the ballot again." Well, Biden isn't going to ever be on the ballot again, either. Whoever the Democrat nominee in 2028 is -- presumably/hopefully someone 20+ years younger -- will be able to detach themselves from Biden much more than Kamala could, and anything Biden does now will not be much of a factor in that race.
4 yr is a long time. Trump
Prob won’t last and then we get Vance! Maybe that’s the plan all along!
I mean, maybe. Biden (and Democrats in general) up until this point did everything they could to follow norms/optics/however you want to look at it. The country chose Trump anyway. It seems obvious that these things don't matter outside of the Beltway all that much.
Nailed it...
EXACTLY!!
It’s hard to stand in someone else’s shoes. Biden lost a wife, a small child, an adult son and now he’s about to leave office with a son in prison. My only child, brilliant scientist son, died a yr ago and it’s hell.
@TessaGoldKramer - I am so sorry! May his memory be a blessing, and hug.💕
So sorry for your loss, Tessa. I can't imagine the pain an of loving a child.
Tessa, my heart breaks for you.💔💐 Sending love and hugs. 💝🤗
Sending a big hug to you. You feel and understand something the rest of us hope we never have to.
It is just utter nonsense to think that President Biden's legacy will be damaged by the pardon. As Eugene Robinson and other, have pointed out, the only people talking about the pardon are the pundits like Chris. As Dave pointed out, there is actual news breaking out these days. I'm not certain that Chris can find it.
The naivete of anyone who argues the moral high ground. The democrats and others who maintained the moral high ground over the past 8 years have not been rewarded nor have they moved the needle with "Maga" world. This argument may have been valid 30 years ago, but what you are missing is that there are not enough if any conservatives/republicans that care. There was a time when this mattered, but it no longer exists. The rules have changed and those of high moral standard will need to adjust.
Exactly, Trump voters are immoral and nothing is going to change that. Our best hope, in my opinion, is support taxpayer funded college in the swing states and move the needle a few points in the next generation. I escaped my Limbaugh/Fox brainwashed family by going to college.
Yay for college!
I agree that the moral high ground is not the right approach for the current day. There will be a day when it matters again. Right now a combination of brass knuckles and pragmatism are the way to go for Democrats.
I think something changed when Obama became President with the emergence of the Tea Party. Since then the moral high ground argument has been a loser.
I totally and vehemently disagree with you and Senator Bennett. do you really think he should have left his son to the vindictiveness of Trump and Kash Patel? Hasn’t his family suffered enough or do you too want to grind Hunter into the ground in hopes you can drive him off his hard fought sobriety. Shame on you. Despite the language, this pretty well sums up exactly what I think of your preaching about Biden ceding the high ground.https://open.substack.com/pub/jefftiedrich/p/hunter-bidens-pardon-has-broken-the?r=53n8c&utm_medium=ios
thanks for that link. Just read his take and agreed with it, so signed up for his newsletter.
I did too!
He should not have lied about it
As is often the best counsel for Biden, he should have kept his mouth shut.
Circumstances significantly changed. Does that mean he can’t change? Have you never changed course given a vastly different set of circumstances from when you made a decision?
Moral high ground as an argument against Trump??? HAHAHAHA!!! Thanks - I needed the laugh.
Michael Bennet needs to extract his cranium from his rectum, and return to the real world…
Yeah…time to move on. In case you haven’t noticed, actual news has broken out in the last couple of days.
And I have written and talked all about it. And will continue to do so. I can walk and chew gum.
Seems like you are just chewing a whole pack of gum…but enjoy your walk
https://chriscillizza.substack.com/p/the-morning-secretary-pudding-fingers
https://chriscillizza.substack.com/p/chris-crucial-the-trump-honeymoon
https://chriscillizza.substack.com/p/the-morning-the-democratic-turnout
https://chriscillizza.substack.com/p/chris-crucial-is-pete-hegseth-a-goner
I actually really do enjoy your writing and have for some time. And you are 100% some one I could get along with: we travel to the same places and we could spend probably hours crushing Portuguese wine while going toe to toe on Always Sunny and Arrested Development quotes. But festering on the Biden pardon at this point is like wearing a muscle suit under your jean shorts at this point.
I'd vehemently argue that neither you nor CC should EVER venture to put on jorts.
Not. A. Good. Look.
Chris 2.0 is going on a revenge tour. This pardon is a nothing burger in light of what his choice to head the FBI has repeatedly said he wants to do.
This guy wants to go after Cassidy Hutchinson for crying out loud!
"Kash Patel has an enemies list centered on grievance
The loyalist Trump hopes will run the FBI published a list of members of the “Deep State” that’s mostly a list of people who have wronged him or Trump."
Read this Washington Post piece for free...
https://wapo.st/3VpqcXg
Oh sure sure sure sure like the guy in a $9000 suit is gonna put on jorts! C’MON!!!
But you make a fair point
Bingo
Disagree with you Chris. The American people chose Trump...a felon and a rapist who said he will be a dictator on day 1. The Republicans will complain about Democrats no matter what they do, like the bully in school who just waits for you to trip and then stands over you spitting in your face and laughing at you. No more take the high road stuff. The American people don't believe it or value it, as they showed in the election. If I were Biden, I'd pardon my son too.
Lighten up, Chris. This holier than thou attitude is really unbecoming. If we were discussing former transitions then I might agree with you but we are not. We are about to see vindictiveness unchained. Also, if you had had some experience with a son in jail (and I hope you do not) perhaps you would not sound so self-righteous.
Not to mention losing a wife, a young daughter, and another son to untimely deaths.
Yeah totally. Screw the law, he lost his kids! I wonder how many pardons he issued for the parents of the thousands of kids he sent off to war in Iraq when he voted “yes.” Let me check, oh zero. Only works for him, never the proletariat.
Parents of kids who volunteered to go to Iraq needed a pardon? For what exactly?
And BTW, the pardon President Biden issued is 100% legal, not sure what issue with "the law" you have...
Clearly the point was not well articulated by
me. The fact that Biden lost his kids, while absolutely sad, that doesn’t mean he can do whatever he wants. Was it legal? Sure. Was it sketchy? Absolutely. If Trump did it would you lose your mind? Also yes.
2.0 pardoned a lot of real criminals, and you had a problem with that? No.
2.0 is promising to pardon real criminals who followed his bidding in attacking our nations Capitol, and also attacked the police protecting the Capitol, and you have a problem with that? No.
2.0 is promising revenge, and wants to put at head of the FBI a guy who wants to go after people even tangentially connected to things 2.0 and Patel disagree with, weaponizing the FBI against their "enemies." Patel has been personally talking about going after Hunter for years, and is bent on destroying him, that is why President Biden gave him the pardon. If any other person was heading the next administration this pardon would not have happened. Even Cassidy Hutchison who only worked for a short time in 2.0's white house and simply testified to what she witnessed is now in the crosshairs of revenge from Patel
Read this from Washington post for free
"Kash Patel has an enemies list centered on grievance
The loyalist Trump hopes will run the FBI published a list of members of the “Deep State” that’s mostly a list of people who have wronged him or Trump."
https://wapo.st/3VpqcXg
Trump never ran on a restoring democracy platform. Biden did. He lied. He also lost. That’s how life goes. I think the whole pardon system is absurd. But those are the rules.
Your writing about this topic is asinine. Back to the same nonsense- take the focus away from 45 and shine it on a man who has lost his children and is desperate to save the one he can. Biden said one thing about the justice system- ONE. And that’s the hill you’re all going to die on? It’s a non-issue. 45 pardoned Kushner and then made him a fucking ambassador. Talk about THAT. And all the scum of the earth he has and will pardon. Do better.
He lied publicly
If lying was our standard for disqualification, Trump certainly would not be the corrective response.
Nope. Move on Chris. Dems bring knives to gun fights. Norms and ways of doing things are gone forever. I'm 1000 percent behind Biden's pardon.
A father. A son. An addict. I get it.
Spend time with Addicts in Jail (which I have done) and you would not have taken this position.
Facts.